Completed 30K mile service, need advice

[Vlad]

I own a 2002 Prius. Live in Boston. Have fared poorly in slippery/snowy conditions.

Just got my 30,000 mile service today. Wish I had found this forum sooner. Now it feels like a bit of a rip-off, at least in terms of how much I paid. (Don't ask). At least the service was long overdue. It was my first one, and I'm at 45K miles.

Service Manager recommends three actions:

1) Buy set of 4 new tires. I agree. Looking into Michelin Harmony or Bridgestone Potenza RE950. Tires are 175/65-14. Recommendations?

2) My battery is "weak". I'm hesitant to replace b/c of cost. What's the worst that can happen?...Car won't start and I'll need a jump start? But I am curious to find out, must I go with a Toyota battery?

3) My biggest concern are the brake rotors/pads. They are worn to 4 mm. I've been advised against refinishing the rotors. But cost to replace is $450. Yikes! Looks like I have no choice. MY PRIMARY QUESTION: Service manager says that brake rotors/pads with genuine Toyota parts offer far superior performance to other places like Meineke, etc. But costs way more too. Is he being truthful?

4) Also have a small nick in my windshield on driver side. Lucky for me, state of MA is the only one in country where insurance company is obligated to replace (or fix) windshield for free. Question is, do I get the nick filled (but it won't be perfect), or replace the entire windshield. I've heard opinion that it's not a hot idea to break the factory seal on the original windshield.

Any comments to above, especially regarding the brakes, much appreciated.

- Vlad

[tumbleweed]

I sure can't answer all of your questions but I'll comment on a few items:

1. Tires, if you were planing to buy them from the Toyota dealer I'd recommend shoping around a bit first. You have a bunch of choices in addition to the two You mentioned. I'd start with tirerack.com one of the sponsors of this site. You may decide to put on the same size you have now 175/65-14 or go to a little wider tire with the same circumference 185/60-14 or a 195/60 14. Look at the tire specs and try to select ones with the same number of revolutions per mile, about 905 for your car I think.

2. You are talking about the 12 Volt battery aren't you? How much do they want for it? I don't know where the battery is on a G1 Prius; the one on my G2 is in the back in a compartment with no ventlation so it has to be a sealed battery, i. e. no vents on top. If yours is the same you might have to bite the bullet and buy it from Toyota. But if you spend some time looking on the internet you might find one for less money.

3. My opinion, I think after market brakes would be fine. Also be sure to get a second or even more estimates. Try a good tire and brake shop, try another Toyota dealer also.

4. If the nick hasn't started to crack and spread yet filling it should be fine, I've had several done that way and had no problems. I have also had several windshields replaced, they use rocks on the ice around here in winter, and haven't had a problem with that either.

I think you will get some other opinions too (some different than mine). Good luck and be sure to let us know how it works out for you.

[efusco]

I don't feel qualified to answer all your questions, but I'll hit the ones I do....

1)Tires, yes, replace if they're worn before winter. Shop around. Check http://john1701a.com for his tire recs for the classic.

2)12v battery: How was it determined that the battery is "weak"? If it truely is--iow they put it on a tester and showed you the results or if you've gone to an independent battery dealers and they did so then you should probably go ahead and replace it. Some folks have commented that it can take some time to find/obtain one of the batteries for replacement. If you have cash on hand you might be wise to go ahead and replace before winter just to avoid any start-up problems and any issues of getting one when you need it later on.

But, if this was just an off-the-cuff comment b/c of the age of the battery I think I'd look into having it tested to determine if it really needs replacement. They aren't cheap and if you don't need a new one there's no point in throwing away money.

3)Aftermarket are probably OK. I'm pretty suprised that you need new brakes already though....are you pretty hard on them when you drive? Some aftermarket places may be unfamiliar with Prius and uncomfortable b/c of the regen brakes and such. You'll need to ask around.

Might be interesting to ask the dealer "Why, if OEM Toyota brakes offer such superior performance, did they wear out already at 45k miles despite the regenerative braking?"

4)Fill is usually fine if it's not too bad.

[Maytrix]

I can't give any better answers to the first 3, so I won't even try.

4) I'd go with a full replacement. Since you can, you might as well. Even after 45k miles, I'm sure there is probably some pitting. Although, considering you don't drive that many miles, odds are good you don't do a lot of highway driving, so it may not be an issue. Personally, I like an extremely clear view and replace my windshield in my last vehicle, just due to pitting alone.

Don't forget - update your profile to include your location.

[hdrygas]

The only way to really test a lead acid battery beyond doubt is with a hydrometer. The computer checks are not always accurate. To make a long story short I was having trouble with a Die Hard the computer showed it to be OK so I took it to an auto electric shop and the hydrometer showed the battery was in bad shape (dead cell? not sure I am remembering all the details) I did get Sears to replace it under warranty. They had to look around to find their hydrometer, never used just trusted the computer. How did you get yours "tested"?

[GeekyDragon]

1) I personally dislike Michelin and Bridgestone. I'd suggest looking up some reviews and spec's at Tirerack.com. My personal favorite is Kuhmo but that's here in N. Cal where we don't get snow.

2) Wouldn't suggest jumping your car. 12V battery should last at least 5 years so I'd be suprised if you already need a new one unless there was something wrong with your old one or you ran it dead. Maybe bring it to Sears and have them check it also.

3) OEM is almost always better then non-performance OEM replacements. Unless you plan on getting performance pads I'd stick with OEM. Also why would your rotors need replacing at 45k? Do they salt the roads around where you are?

4) If the nick isn't very large then simply filling it would be fine. If you want to replace then take it to a reputable place and don't worry about the seals. Believe it or not, windshields get replaced all the time at dealerships before the cars are even sold. It's pretty commong for new cars in transport to get rock chips or cracked glass.

My 2 cents
--GD

[tumbleweed]

Just a word about the 12 Volt battery. Unfortunately you are not going to be able to check the specific gravity of the cells with a hydrometer because the cells are sealed. I suspect the electrolite in this type of battery is sort of a gel rather than a liquid anyway.

I can think of two good checks however:

1. Make sure it is being charged correctly, Toyota most likely did this already, at least I would hope so. I would suggest asking them if they checked the 12 Volt charging system just to be sure.

2. Do a capacity check of the battery. Toyota almost certainly did not do this. To do it correctly the battery should be disconnected (instructions in the owners manual) and discharged over several hours (usually 8) to determine its capacity. This requires the use of some basic instrumentation and the proper test load for the battery size. A good automotive electric shop could do that for you. This is the only test I know of that will give you a good indication of the condition of this type of battery. You should be able to find out it's remaining capacity as a percentage of what it was when it was new. If it's still at 70% or 80% no problem; if it's much lower than that it might be best to buy a new one.

You could, of course, just buy one. But as previously posted I think this battery should last 5 or 6 years. I suspect they didn't test it properly or they are just trying to sell batteries.

[hobbit]

Boston area? Go to Atlantic Battery in Watertown, and see what
they've got to replace/upgrade your AGM. And by the way, that
battery *does* have a vent, it just goes into a little hose and
exits the car. That's pretty much mandatory to prevent hydrogen
buildup in the unlikely event of overcharging.
.
[Assumption here is that we're not talking about the HV battery..]
.
Hmmm, hydrogen-powered Prius: disconnect vent hose, leave powered
up for 2 days, open rear hatch, light match... very limited range,
and only works once.
.
_H*

[tumbleweed]

Originally posted by hobbit@Nov 11 2005, 11:37 PM
And by the way, that battery *does* have a vent, it just goes into a little hose and
exits the car.

[Assumption here is that we're not talking about the HV battery..]

[snapback]154511[/snapback]

I stand corrected, There is a little black vent hose, as you point out a good thing too.

Yes we were discussing the 12 Volt not the HV.

[jayman]

Originally posted by Vlad@Nov 11 2005, 12:17 AM
I own a 2002 Prius. Live in Boston. Have fared poorly in slippery/snowy conditions.

I would certainly look into dedicated winter snow tires for driving in winter. It has been my experience the much improved traction and better confidence really pay off, literally, as they keep you out of the ditch.

Although I'm currently away from Winnipeg on business, before I left on Sunday I put on my new winter tires: Yokohama Ice Guard 10 on steel wheels. The previous winter I used Dunlop Graspic DS-2 but due to a vandalism incident at my condo, they were ruined.

I have high expectations from the new Ice Guard tires as they apparently test very well. Even the Dunlop Graspic DS-2 were light years better than my Michelin Harmony "all season" tires.

Knowing my luck by the time I return on Wednesday afternoon, there will be snow/ice on the streets. The weather forecast is not encouraging.

Originally posted by Vlad@Nov 11 2005, 12:17 AM
3) My biggest concern are the brake rotors/pads. They are worn to 4 mm. I've been advised against refinishing the rotors. But cost to replace is $450.

[snapback]153967[/snapback]

Well, I received the same line from my GMC truck dealer when my 2000 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 "needed" new rear rotors just before the warranty expired. Very poor design, especially that "drum in hat" rear parking brake.

I had a coupon for a free brake inspection/adjust from my local Toyota dealer, so I took my 2004 Prius in at around 23,000km. According to the report, the front pads were at about 95% and the rear shoes at 99%.

That is with my Prius spending about 80% of it's total odometer in Winnipeg city traffic. I'm not sure what if any difference there is in braking with the "classic" Prius but I'd be very surprised if a Prius needed new brakes before 80,000 miles. Even the taxi fleets are getting longer than that out of the brakes.