Front end problems - pulling, drifting

[rebgaby]

I purchased my 2005 middle-level Prius in May 2005. As I left the dealership I noticed the car, which had 5 miles on it, pulled to the left on braking. I was in a hurry to pick my daughter up at school and it was 6 PM, otherwise I would have turned around and taken it back. The problem has persisted through 9,000 miles, one tire rotation, and for overnight stays at the dealership wherein it was taken to the alignment shop and re-alligned. Each time it pulls and drifts, now in both directions, the same as before the alignment.

I believe there is a bad part in the front end. If anyone else has had and/or solved this problem, I would love to hear about how you resolved it! I have pretty much had it with the dealership which does not have loaners so makes it very difficult to leave the car for any period of time.

Claire

[Jack 06]

Let's start at the berginning, since this has gone on a ridiculous 7 months or so.

When you've taken it to the dealer (how many times?), WHO has driven it to check on your complaint---Service Mgr. or mechanic (if you know). Secondly, have they acknowledged at the dealership that there IS a problem?

With a complaint like that, they're supposed to road-test it before giving it back to you---not just say, "we aligned it, so it MUST be OK."

[efusco]

Claire PM'd me on this same question. She gave me some other key information that she neglected to include in the OP.

The main thing I noticed that gives me concern is that she describes the steering wheel will sometimes jerk hard enough to almost come out of her hands when braking. I haven't asked here to elaborate on what speeds this occurs at or how often or if it's just during turning stops or straight on ones too. Perhaps that's what I'm doing now!

Also, I'd like to know more about the drifting and pulling....is this a high speed phenomenon or a low speed one or both? Have you seen the alignment print out and are you within specs? Did they do a 'zero-point calibration' prior to doing the actual alignment as is necessary? Have you had the brakes checked? I'm concerned that there's a problem with the electonic steering unit if the alignments have been done properly, esp. with the story of jerking with braking.

Have you called Toyota Customer support? You really NEED to do that soon with a good description of your problem. In fact, I would write out in detail the problems you're experiencing with emphesis on the jerking when braking problem--I think that's key to the solution to your problem.

[galaxee]

i'll chip in also, are they using the right specs in their alignment machine?

there's no point in aligning a car if the specs are wrong.

the only time the steering wheel should jerk when braking is if you hit a pothole or some other thing in the road.

[rebgaby]

Yes, they have test-driven it - it is intermittent and they say they don't notice anything. I could not get the car to do it when we went on a brief test drive on city streets near the dealership.

The service manager has been the person I have dealt with. Every time. AND, this dealership (Toyota Berkeley) has its own alginment shop, which is where the car has been taken FOUR TIMES NOW, three times by them, once by me (I was made to wait several hours there). They told me that their "master alignment specialist" looked at it. All they really did was put it on the machine and re-align it. Which did no good.


They make it very inconvenient to get any work done on your car as they don't have loaners and won't drive you anywhere except a close BART station which does me no good.

Each time the car is takn to the alignment shop, it appears to need re-aligning. That should tell them something there. Cars should not lose their alignment instantly.

My brother, who owns a Prius of the exact same age, drove it and said it does have a problem with drifting and pulling, which his does not.

The only option they give me is to go through the same completely useless exercise over again, leaving it over night and having them realign it which does not change the problem.

The owner of the dealership is a friend of mine. I think at this point I will have to call him.

Claire

Originally posted by Jack 06@Dec 18 2005, 01:19 PM
Let's start at the berginning, since this has gone on a ridiculous 7 months or so.

When you've taken it to the dealer (how many times?), WHO has driven it to check on your complaint---Service Mgr. or mechanic (if you know).  Secondly, have they acknowledged at the dealership that there IS a problem?

With a complaint like that, they're supposed to road-test it before giving it back to you---not just say, "we aligned it, so it MUST be OK."

[snapback]175358[/snapback]

[rebgaby]

It happens at all speeds and is intermittent. Often as I start to brake I will pull the wheel back to center and it will stay there, but only because I pulled it back first. Sometimes you can take your hands off the wheel and apply the brakes and it goes in straight line. That's the frustrating part.

I would think it was the brakes, too, except for the fact that the car also drifts and the wheel jerks even before I have applied the brakes.

I will call the owner of the dealership and ask for the best service manager there (they have 3). I didn't know that the electronic steering could be the problem. I will mention it.

As for the alignment, I have to assume that they are doing it right since they are a Toyota dealership alignment shop. I have asked to see the printout and it seems to be matching specs I got from the 2005_prius yahoo group. Re-aligning the car makes no difference.

I do live in an area with very ill-maintained roads but I avoid potholes and don't drive too fast. And the problem happens no matter what the condition of the roads.

claire

Originally posted by efusco@Dec 18 2005, 01:45 PM
Claire PM'd me on this same question.  She gave me some other key information that she neglected to include in the OP.

The main thing I noticed that gives me concern is that she describes the steering wheel will sometimes jerk hard enough to almost come out of her hands when braking.  I haven't asked here to elaborate on what speeds this occurs at or how often or if it's just during turning stops or straight on ones too.  Perhaps that's what I'm doing now!

Also, I'd like to know more about the drifting and pulling....is this a high speed phenomenon or a low speed one or both?  Have you seen the alignment print out and are you within specs?  Did they do a 'zero-point calibration' prior to doing the actual alignment as is necessary?  Have you had the brakes checked?  I'm concerned that there's a problem with the electonic steering unit if the alignments have been done properly, esp. with the story of jerking with braking.

Have you called Toyota Customer support?  You really NEED to do that soon with a good description of your problem.  In fact, I would write out in detail the problems you're experiencing with emphesis on the jerking when braking problem--I think that's key to the solution to your problem.

[snapback]175375[/snapback]

[IFixEm]

Pulls hard when braking but also pulls hard out of the blue with no driver input? Pulls both right and left? I think I got that correct. Have someone take a hard look at the sterring angle sensor as it makes slow sweeps right and left. A failing steering angle sensor could be seeing a spike and think you want assist when you do not....minor bump in the road starts the wheel to turn and the electric motor gives the unwanted assist. Check for amperage varriations in the P/S motor as you turn it. Get your DSM involved....he can and should allow a rental and give the tech a blank check for diag time. It sounds like they need to feel it while the scanner is connected before they pin it down. This may mean several days without your car. It sounds more like an electrical malfunction not an alignment issue. It should be going to an MDT with prius certs, not just the alignment guy.

Regards, Mike

[richard schumacher]

Friend or not, if it's not fixed in the next go-around try another dealer. Then get Toyota involved. Something is seriously, perhaps dangerously, wrong with your car.

[DanMan32]

First, the zero point adjustment is done AFTER an alignment.
Second, the steering angle sensor is for VSC, not for power steering. That could be off too, if the car has VSC, espeically if the described symptoms are accompanied by the VSC alarm (squiggly car icon with a buzzer). One of the functions VSC does is help correct improper steering during a skid. Mostly though it prevents skids in turns by applying the brakes appropriately.
The power steering uses a torqe sensor to detect a torque being applied to the steering wheel, which signals the EPS to help turn the wheel. I believe the zero point adjustment is to align the torque sensor with the new alignment, and possible new center steering wheel position.

[galaxee]

i could be remembering this wrong, but DH had a 4runner or some larger model with a bad steering angle sensor, and it didn't trigger the VSC alarm it just kept the car from going faster than a couple mph.

bah, me and my bad memory. i'll ask him later.

but, ifixem is right, this is not a job for just an alignment guy, it's got to go to someone who knows what the hell they're doing. and the tech is going to need diagnostic time to fix what's wrong with the car, not just to keep doing alignments to correct the superficial problem.