Dealer repairs?

[plantz]

When my 2005 was new, it took me a while to convince my dealer that the car was out of alignment. They finally aligned it so that it handled reasonably well, and the tires seem to be wearing evenly (23k miles). Then I took it in for the steering shaft recall, and they left the steering wheel off center. When trying to fix that, they mucked up the alignment again. (The car turns slightly more easily to the left than to the right.)

This time they gave me a print out, which shows that the left real wheel toe is 0.38 degrees in. The spec. calls for 0.02 - 0.28 degrees toe in; the right rear toes in 0.20 degrees. Since this is not adjustable, they do not want to fix it. Everything else is in spec.

I really don't know how much this slightly out of spec. alignment affects the handling, but I was not getting a good answer from my dealer's "assistant service manager." So I called Toyota customer service, and they contacted my dealer.

This time the service manager called me and left a message on my voice mail saying that the Prius has a "full floating rear end/rear axle" which is found on "all the new vehicles." He went on to say that the rear wheels never need alignment because it "aligns itself as you're driving." He said that when the car is put on the alignment rack, "it is always going to show the rear end is out." (I'm not making this up.)

I called back and told him that my Prius brochure says the car has a torsion beam rear suspension and that I've owned cars since the late 1970s that had the same type of suspension.

He agreed to have his shop put the front wheel alignment back where it was before the steering shaft recall work. At this point, even having them do that sorta scares me.

[Charles Suitt]

<_< Hello plantz

Sorry your dealer experience is less than wonderful.

To the contrary, my experience has been very good. There *ARE* good service departments and dealers out here in Prius land. My Dallas area dealer's service department knows the Prius and its peculiarities and follows my requests to the letter when working on my Prius. I help this process by giving them a "by the numbers" list of exactly what I want done - I furnish the oil (exactly 3½ quarts of Mobil-1 5W30) and specify tire pressures (40psi front/38 psi rear), etc. I *NEVER* say anything like "Do the 20,000 mile service." The SSC-60C recall (steering column) replacement was done and steering wheel returned centered.

Hope you can find a dealer with more knowledge and a positive attitude.

Suggestion: Provide your location in your avatar and signature. It will help folks responding to you to have an idea WHERE you are.

[dreichla]

Sorry to hear about your problems. . . It's good you can tell the BS from the truth. I'm sure most people, including myself, place too much trust in the diagnosis from the mechanic - spending money needlessly for non-necessary work.

Good repair shops are hard to find. Once you find one, stick to them like glue.

We had a great one several years ago, until the owner died of cancer. We've never found one comparible since.

[fphinney]

Would you PLEASE go to your viewing profile & add to it, the city (or area) where you live? It would it easier on a lot of us, who might wonder if the dealer you are talking about is their dealer, too!

Thanks,

[galaxee]

it's not so much the shop even, but which tech has your car. there are some real boneheads around, that's for sure.

even in a good shop, about 70% of the people there are there to do maintenance work, and maybe 30% can actually fix a problem.

unfortunately the ones who aren't great at fixing things initially get a problem car while the guys who can fix stuff are busy fixing other people's mistakes. it gets complex.

once you find someone who can fix things... remember that name and ask for that name.

okay enough of the general advice. so they're still being stupid, eh? the rear is fixable with those shims i told you about... have them call up tech assist and ask them how to fix a rear alignment issue. handmade shims. that's all there is. there is no oem part and just because there's no adjuster on the car doesn't mean it's not adjustable. cripes. you could probably put the things in yourself and just go in to have them check the alignment afterward, i believe that's what tumbleweed did when he got so fed up with his dealer's handling of the situation.

[tumbleweed]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 30 2006, 08:06 AM) [snapback]326015[/snapback]</div>

the rear is fixable with those shims i told you about... have them call up tech assist and ask them how to fix a rear alignment issue. handmade shims. that's all there is. there is no oem part and just because there's no adjuster on the car doesn't mean it's not adjustable. cripes. you could probably put the things in yourself and just go in to have them check the alignment afterward, i believe that's what tumbleweed did when he got so fed up with his dealer's handling of the situation.
[/b]

Yes, and it worked out great thanks to Galaxee and DH. I took it in to the dealer one last time after I installed the shim (actually I did that twice because the first one didn't move it quite enough) and the service manager aligned it himself on his lunch hour. I think he's a really good tech, some of the others there are not, and he did an extra good job for me because they were tired of hearing me whine. The car drives great now, it had been so bad I was actually considering getting rid of it.

[plantz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fphinney @ Sep 29 2006, 11:51 PM) [snapback]325948[/snapback]</div>

Would you PLEASE go to your viewing profile & add to it, the city (or area) where you live? It would it easier on a lot of us, who might wonder if the dealer you are talking about is their dealer, too!

Thanks,
[/b]

Sorry about that. It was an oversight. I have entered the information.

[plantz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tumbleweed @ Sep 30 2006, 12:58 PM) [snapback]326145[/snapback]</div>

Yes, and it worked out great thanks to Galaxee and DH. I took it in to the dealer one last time after I installed the shim (actually I did that twice because the first one didn't move it quite enough) and the service manager aligned it himself on his lunch hour. I think he's a really good tech, some of the others there are not, and he did an extra good job for me because they were tired of hearing me whine. The car drives great now, it had been so bad I was actually considering getting rid of it.
[/b]

Also my thanks to Galaxee, who has been very helpful and supportive.

My dealer has not been at all open to using shims. Tumbleweed, did your dealer charge you for checking the alignment? So far, mine at least has not charged me. Also, is this the sort of thing I can do at home? I'm good at such things and have a reasonable set of tools. I'm just concerned that I will make things worse and void the warranty.

My rear wheels don't seem to be that far out. The spec is 0.03 - 0.28 toe in, total 0.06 - 0.56. Mine is 0.37 on the left and 0.20 on the right with a total of 0.57. The handling between the first alignment (~6k miles) and the steering shaft recall (~22k miles) was pretty good. I'm inclined to simply get them to put the front end back where it was (before the steering shaft recall thing) and drive the car.

My particular Prius is also plagued with dashboard rattles that come and go. The dealer has been mildly effective at fixing these. But I understand that it's difficult to repair problems that come and go.

Overall, I like the car a lot. But these seemingly minor problems bug me, and I may trade the car in before too long. I plan to check out the Honda Fit and Nissan Versa soon.

[tumbleweed]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plantz @ Oct 1 2006, 11:34 AM) [snapback]326516[/snapback]</div>

Also my thanks to Galaxee, who has been very helpful and supportive.

My dealer has not been at all open to using shims. Tumbleweed, did your dealer charge you for checking the alignment? So far, mine at least has not charged me. Also, is this the sort of thing I can do at home? I'm good at such things and have a reasonable set of tools. I'm just concerned that I will make things worse and void the warranty.

My rear wheels don't seem to be that far out. The spec is 0.03 - 0.28 toe in, total 0.06 - 0.56. Mine is 0.37 on the left and 0.20 on the right with a total of 0.57. The handling between the first alignment (~6k miles) and the steering shaft recall (~22k miles) was pretty good. I'm inclined to simply get them to put the front end back where it was (before the steering shaft recall thing) and drive the car.

My particular Prius is also plagued with dashboard rattles that come and go. The dealer has been mildly effective at fixing these. But I understand that it's difficult to repair problems that come and go.

Overall, I like the car a lot. But these seemingly minor problems bug me, and I may trade the car in before too long. I plan to check out the Honda Fit and Nissan Versa soon.
[/b]

I ask the dealer and two of the local tire shops if they would install shims, the answer was no. One of the tire shops said they would install shims manufactured for the car but not home made ones. They are afraid of law suits, no surprise there. Fortunately it is an easy job and I kind of enjoyed it.

Alignments have been interesting between the rear axel problem I had and the steering recall I ended up with about 7 alignments. One from the dealer where I bought the car but it was no good because their equipment was way off, Three each from the tire shop where I bought new tires and the local dealer that did the axle and the steering recall. I wasn't charged for any of them.

If you have +.37 and +.20 for a total of +.57 in the rear then I would suggest leaving it alone. As you may know the plus numbers are toed in and thats good for stability, mine was toed out to far at one time which makes it really flaky. According to the information I have the spec for the rear is +.03 to +.28 on each side total +.06 to +.56.

As far as the front toe is concerned I have mine set for +.05 on each side for a total of +.10 and it drives great. The spec for the front is +.1 to -.1 on each side, total +.20 to -.20. The dealer wanted to set it to .00 in front but I talked them into +.05 as suggested by John1701a.

Here is a good basic explination of alignment:
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

Here is some tire info from John but there is a bit in here on front toe in.
http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-tires.htm

[plantz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tumbleweed @ Oct 1 2006, 01:07 PM) [snapback]326540[/snapback]</div>

If you have +.37 and +.20 for a total of +.57 in the rear then I would suggest leaving it alone. As you may know the plus numbers are toed in and thats good for stability, mine was toed out to far at one time which makes it really flaky. According to the information I have the spec for the rear is +.03 to +.28 on each side total +.06 to +.56.
[/b]

Thank you, tumbleweed, for your thoughtful comments. I very much appreciate your taking the time to write them. I feel much better about my car now. I was not looking forward to arguing with the dealer and/or Toyota.

Yes, I'm aware that toe in tends to help stability. I also presented my question to "John's Tookbox" on consumerreports.org. His recommendation was the same as yours -- leave well enough alone. I also note that there does not seem to be any unusual tire wear with 23k miles on the car.