Tires: Low rolling resistance vs longer life?

[prberg]

Hi all... I will make this quick since most of the tire talk has been beaten to death. I just wanted to see if anyone could provide clarification/opionions on this specific issue.

I want to get new tires (my Integrities are getting quite worn) and I am kina torn between a 'normal' All-season tire (Michelin X-radial (similar to the 'Harmony' I believe) and a lower Rolling Resistance Tire (Michelin MXV4+).

I don't mind spending a little more on a tire which is a little more efficient (gets better MPG) but it seems like the MXV4+ (and other LRR tires in general?) don't last nearly as long. Seems like almost half? Some say 50k out of the MXV4's and more like 80k out of the X-Radials. This whole issue probably isn't worth worrying about since we are splitting hairs here.... but I guess I wondered if it makes sence to get a tire which I have to replace sooner if it only improves MPG by a small amount. Isn't going through tires faster a bad thing for the environment?

thanks for your help and opinions.

-Peter B

[Tempus]

I faced the same dilemma. I chose the X-Radials for the reasons you stated, plus the fact that they are better rated for safety in almost every area.

Most reviews I see of the MXV4+s say around 40K for the tread life, and since the X-Radials are less expensive to start and last longer, I figure from a cost (to me) standpoint there's no way the slight mileage increase for the MXV4+s would outweigh the higher initial cost plus the earlier replacement cost of the tires.

CR rated the X-Radials excellent on rolling resistance in their previous review, and though I suspect the MXV4+s are in fact better, I don't think the Xs are terrible.

That being said, I do have a noticeable mileage decrease with the Xs, but I've only had them on a short time, and I put them on at about the time of the shift to Winter Fuel, so sorting out just how much is the tires, and how much they may improve as they break in will take some time.

And, as you said, from an environmental standpoint, putting 4 extra tires in the trash has to outweigh the few gallons of gas they may save over their life.

So, I fell down on the side of the Xs. YMMV.

[qbee42]

I'm putting a set of MXV4+s on our 2006. I'll let you know what I think after I drive with them for a while.

Tom

[kingofgix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prberg @ Oct 19 2006, 03:18 PM) [snapback]335203[/snapback]</div>

Isn't going through tires faster a bad thing for the environment?

[/b]

Used tire disposal is an environmental problem, and tires take resources and energy to manufacture. I can't imagine that buying tires that last half as long but save say 4% on gas mileage (about 2 mpg in Prius which is what I have been told) is a good environmental or economic decision.

Doing a bit of math, assuming 48 mpg with "regular" tires and 50 mpg with low rolling resistance tires, gas at $2.50 per gallon, tires at $120 each (mounted and balanced), and 40k vs. 80k mile tire life yeilds this:

Drive 80,000 miles with "regular" tires
Gas cost: (80,000/48) * 2.50 = $4167
Tire cost: 4 * 120 = $ 480
Total = $4647

Drive 80,000 miles with LRR tires
Gas cost: (80,000/50) * 2.50 = $4000
Tire cost: 8 * 120 = $ 960
Total = $4960

Savings using "regular" tires: $313

Based on this, I just replaced my original Goodyear Integrity tires (worn out with 37,000 miles on them), with Michelin Hydroedge (80,000 mile warranty). It is too early to give a report on mileage, but the Michelins are quieter, have a better ride and handling feel, and much better traction (we had a blizzrd here in Denver Tuesday!).

[qbee42]

I used to run Xs on my Honda CRX. I never got anywhere near 80,000 miles with them. The tread would still be good, but the sidewalls cracked long before that from sun and age. Maybe if I had driven more miles per year the sidewalls and tread would have worn out together.

Tom

[Beryl Octet]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kingofgix @ Oct 19 2006, 04:51 PM) [snapback]335244[/snapback]</div>

Used tire disposal is an environmental problem, and tires take resources and energy to manufacture. I can't imagine that buying tires that last half as long but save say 4% on gas mileage (about 2 mpg in Prius which is what I have been told) is a good environmental or economic decision.

Doing a bit of math, assuming 48 mpg with "regular" tires and 50 mpg with low rolling resistance tires, gas at $2.50 per gallon, tires at $120 each (mounted and balanced), and 40k vs. 80k mile tire life yeilds this:

Drive 80,000 miles with "regular" tires
Gas cost: (80,000/48) * 2.50 = $4167
Tire cost: 4 * 120 = $ 480
Total = $4647

Drive 80,000 miles with LRR tires
Gas cost: (80,000/50) * 2.50 = $4000
Tire cost: 8 * 120 = $ 960
Total = $4960

Savings using "regular" tires: $313

Based on this, I just replaced my original Goodyear Integrity tires (worn out with 37,000 miles on them), with Michelin Hydroedge (80,000 mile warranty). It is too early to give a report on mileage, but the Michelins are quieter, have a better ride and handling feel, and much better traction (we had a blizzrd here in Denver Tuesday!).
[/b]

Having had a set of MXV4+'s on my previous car, I'm planning on a set on my Prius when the Integrities wear down some more. I just can't quite bring myself to buy new tires when these are still servicable. Once poor, never rich. A few questions for you: Are the Hydroedge's and the MXV4's the same price? Is there really only a 2MPG difference? It does rain here a bit, and most of my refresher courses on the laws of physics have involved hydroplaning or not stopping in time in rainy weather.

I can't fault your math, but my experience with tire warranties is usually something like this: The tires wear out at 80% of their life, so they'll give you 20% off on a new set. But the car has by that point something like 100K on it, and I don't want to spring for another set of top of the lines for a car I'm only going to keep another year or two.

[prberg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Oct 19 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]335376[/snapback]</div>

Having had a set of MXV4+'s on my previous car, I'm planning on a set on my Prius when the Integrities wear down some more. I just can't quite bring myself to buy new tires when these are still servicable. Once poor, never rich. A few questions for you: Are the Hydroedge's and the MXV4's the same price? Is there really only a 2MPG difference?
[/b]

I was just at Costco.... I think the X-radials and MXV4's were both about $105/tire (including mounting, etc). The Hydroedge's were about 10-15 $ more. they have a coupon for $60 off a set of 4. So I think the price isn't TOO bad (although I used to get the cheapest tires possible (like $40/tire), but those tires never felt very safe.

How long did the MXV4's last you on your previous car? I hate to buy another tire that only gets like 40k unless it is quite a bit 'greener' than the rest.

-Peter B

[Beryl Octet]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prberg @ Oct 19 2006, 11:15 PM) [snapback]335385[/snapback]</div>

How long did the MXV4's last you on your previous car? I hate to buy another tire that only gets like 40k unless it is quite a bit 'greener' than the rest.

-Peter B
[/b]

They had 45K on them when I traded the car in, not quite down to the wear bars, but getting close.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prberg @ Oct 19 2006, 11:15 PM) [snapback]335385[/snapback]</div>

I was just at Costco.... I think the X-radials and MXV4's were both about $105/tire (including mounting, etc). The Hydroedge's were about 10-15 $ more. they have a coupon for $60 off a set of 4. So I think the price isn't TOO bad (although I used to get the cheapest tires possible (like $40/tire), but those tires never felt very safe.
[/b]

For some reason, I was thinking those hydroedges were much more expensive. Thanks!

[jervin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kingofgix @ Oct 19 2006, 04:51 PM) [snapback]335244[/snapback]</div>

Used tire disposal is an environmental problem, and tires take resources and energy to manufacture. I can't imagine that buying tires that last half as long but save say 4% on gas mileage (about 2 mpg in Prius which is what I have been told) is a good environmental or economic decision.

Doing a bit of math, assuming 48 mpg with "regular" tires and 50 mpg with low rolling resistance tires, gas at $2.50 per gallon, tires at $120 each (mounted and balanced), and 40k vs. 80k mile tire life yeilds this:

Drive 80,000 miles with "regular" tires
Gas cost: (80,000/48) * 2.50 = $4167
Tire cost: 4 * 120 = $ 480
Total = $4647

Drive 80,000 miles with LRR tires
Gas cost: (80,000/50) * 2.50 = $4000
Tire cost: 8 * 120 = $ 960
Total = $4960

Savings using "regular" tires: $313

Based on this, I just replaced my original Goodyear Integrity tires (worn out with 37,000 miles on them), with Michelin Hydroedge (80,000 mile warranty). It is too early to give a report on mileage, but the Michelins are quieter, have a better ride and handling feel, and much better traction (we had a blizzrd here in Denver Tuesday!).
[/b]

I also replaced the original Integrity tires with the Michelin Hydroedge. It rains alot here in Oregon and I figured the added traction would be a bonus. They are very quiet and a good ride, but I seem to have lost about 3 mpg out of the deal. I have about 2500 miles on them now and would highly recommend them to others.

[kingofgix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Oct 19 2006, 10:50 PM) [snapback]335376[/snapback]</div>

Are the Hydroedge's and the MXV4's the same price? Is there really only a 2MPG difference? It does rain here a bit, and most of my refresher courses on the laws of physics have involved hydroplaning or not stopping in time in rainy weather.

I can't fault your math, but my experience with tire warranties is usually something like this: The tires wear out at 80% of their life, so they'll give you 20% off on a new set. But the car has by that point something like 100K on it, and I don't want to spring for another set of top of the lines for a car I'm only going to keep another year or two.
[/b]

They were about the same price at discount tire. John1701a at John1701a.com put Hydroedges on his Prius some time back and reported a 1.5 mpg drop, so I used 2 mpg to be conservative.

As far a tire life, I'm can only tell you this. My brother had Michelin tires (don't know which specific model) last for 100,000 miles on a Toyota Camry. And I had a set of Michelin Hydroedge tires on a volvo that got totalled when the tires had 60k on them. I believe they would have made it to 80k or beyond. I do not know how long the MXV4's will last.