Michelin Harmony or Michelin Energy MXV4

[BH1973]

Hi,

I know this - or at least a similar - question has been asked before, but I thought I'd ask it again and get the latest from users who've replaced tires and now have some miles on them.

I've got 41,500 miles on my Integrities on my 2004 Prius. I've always thought they were pretty lousy, but figured it might just be the car itself. Now I'm learning that new tires will improve just about every aspect of the driving experience.

So, I've narrowed it down to two tires:

1) Michelin Harmony ($483 OTD)
2) Michelin Energy MXV4 ($540 OTD)

I'm not going to shop around or buy from Costco. These are the prices from a family owned business that I like and trust (and is a mile from my house). They recommended the Harmony, but said the MXV4 is a great tire too (but no tread wear warranty). They steered me away from the Hydroedge, which they sell ($550), but which I really don't need and may be too noisy at the lower speeds I normally drive at.

As far as I can tell, the MXV4 is a slightly higher performing tire, but won't last very long, while the Harmony is perhaps a bit softer, will last much longer, but will reduce my MPGs a bit. I'm leaning toward the Harmony, but thought I'd get some input before I pull the trigger on these!

Thanks!

[jdenenberg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BH1973 @ Mar 17 2007, 04:03 PM) [snapback]407501[/snapback]</div>

Hi,

I know this - or at least a similar - question has been asked before, but I thought I'd ask it again and get the latest from users who've replaced tires and now have some miles on them.

I've got 41,500 miles on my Integrities on my 2004 Prius. I've always thought they were pretty lousy, but figured it might just be the car itself. Now I'm learning that new tires will improve just about every aspect of the driving experience.

So, I've narrowed it down to two tires:

1) Michelin Harmony ($483 OTD)
2) Michelin Energy MXV4 ($540 OTD)

I'm not going to shop around or buy from Costco. These are the prices from a family owned business that I like and trust (and is a mile from my house). They recommended the Harmony, but said the MXV4 is a great tire too (but no tread wear warranty). They steered me away from the Hydroedge, which they sell ($550), but which I really don't need and may be too noisy at the lower speeds I normally drive at.

As far as I can tell, the MXV4 is a slightly higher performing tire, but won't last very long, while the Harmony is perhaps a bit softer, will last much longer, but will reduce my MPGs a bit. I'm leaning toward the Harmony, but thought I'd get some input before I pull the trigger on these![/b]

The Harmony tires should last longer as you noted, but they will cost you about 5 MPG.

My MXV4+ tires now have 35,000 miles on them and have more than half their tread left. The trick to getting reasonable tread wear (and great MPG) out of these tires is to run them at somewhat higher air pressure than suggested by Toyota. They are safe to 44 PSI. I run the at 42 (front) and 40 (rear). They have achieved slightly better MPG than the original tires (Goodyear Integrity) while providing much better traction and handling.

You are paying a premium of about 25% to use your local tire supplier. My MXV4+ tires were $425 mounted, balanced and guaranteed (with free rotations and balances for their life) at BJs discount warehouse.

JeffD

[BH1973]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply. That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for and might now reconsider. I run my Integrities at 40/38 so I could up them a bit.

As for BJs, the nearest one is 30 miles away and I don't have a membership. It would be a wash. Sturdevants is my neighbor - less than 1 mile away. They have the same warranty and free balancing/rotations. DiscountTire of America wanted $530, and another local company wanted $540 and $500 for the Harmony. So I'm kind of stuck.

Anyway, this is something to think about. If I could get 60,000 out of the MXV4s and get 5 mpg more, it'd be a wash. I'm averaging 50-51 and it would pain me to go under that!

Thanks again!

BH


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jdenenberg @ Mar 17 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]407546[/snapback]</div>

The Harmony tires should last longer as you noted, but they will cost you about 5 MPG.

My MXV4+ tires now have 35,000 miles on them and have more than half their tread left. The trick to getting reasonable tread wear (and great MPG) out of these tires is to run them at somewhat higher air pressure than suggested by Toyota. They are safe to 44 PSI. I run the at 42 (front) and 40 (rear). They have achieved slightly better MPG than the original tires (Goodyear Integrity) while providing much better traction and handling.

You are paying a premium of about 25% to use your local tire supplier. My MXV4+ tires were $425 mounted, balanced and guaranteed (with free rotations and balances for their life) at BJs discount warehouse.

JeffD
[/b]

[sub3marathonman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BH1973 @ Mar 17 2007, 07:30 PM) [snapback]407615[/snapback]</div>

So I'm kind of stuck.
BH
[/b]

You could check into mail ordering them from Tire Rack. I just did that with my mom's tires for her Prius. I got the Bridgestone Turanza LS-T 195/65R15, which is the bigger size and actually $1/tire cheaper. They have an 80K mile warranty too, and for $73/tire plus shipping it was a great deal. Tire Rack has a deal with local tire shops on their website, so you can have somebody local install the tires.

Before you would order the tires though you might want to check with the local tire installing shop from the website. They told me that you were supposed to have the tires shipped directly to them, even though they are your tires, if you want the advertised installation price from the website. They turned out to be OK here and gave me the same price though, so I don't know if it was really true what they said. I think it came to about $12.50 or so per tire.

[John in LB]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jdenenberg @ Mar 17 2007, 01:24 PM) [snapback]407546[/snapback]</div>

The Harmony tires should last longer as you noted, but they will cost you about 5 MPG.

My MXV4+ tires now have 35,000 miles on them and have more than half their tread left. The trick to getting reasonable tread wear (and great MPG) out of these tires is to run them at somewhat higher air pressure than suggested by Toyota. They are safe to 44 PSI. I run the at 42 (front) and 40 (rear). They have achieved slightly better MPG than the original tires (Goodyear Integrity) while providing much better traction and handling.

You are paying a premium of about 25% to use your local tire supplier. My MXV4+ tires were $425 mounted, balanced and guaranteed (with free rotations and balances for their life) at BJs discount warehouse.

JeffD
[/b]

I have religion around the Michelin MXV4+ tires.... have used them on several cars - and they are really good. Consumer Reports consistently show them near the top in all categories.

Expensive tire and may not last as long as others. However, top quality ride characteristics.

On my other cars (not on Prius) I have consistently gotten 40,000 miles on them (I have bought 5 or 6 sets over the past 10 years...)

I like a local tire shop also - have gotten to know them personally. One thing they do for me is match the best price I can find on the internet (Like Tire Rack) to keep my business. You might try asking your dealer to do the same for you.

[Syclone]

I have about 5000 miles on my MXV-4's and they seem to be 2 - 3 MPG better than the Integritys. I got rid of the integritys at about 4000 miles. They couldn't hold the road on wet pavement. The Michelin's are one size up - 195/15/60. The only downside is that they make the speedometer read ~.8 - .9 MPH high. Road handling seems excellent. Snow performance is also quite good (traction control seems more of an issue in snow than tires).

If you have a Costco near you use them! They were having a $60.00 off sale on MXV-4's. They also rotate the tires free forever and have a lot of services that tire dealers charge for.

[jdenenberg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Mar 18 2007, 09:08 AM) [snapback]407830[/snapback]</div>

I have about 5000 miles on my MXV-4's and they seem to be 2 - 3 MPG better than the Integritys. I got rid of the integritys at about 4000 miles. They couldn't hold the road on wet pavement. The Michelin's are one size up - 195/15/60. The only downside is that they make the speedometer read ~.8 - .9 MPH high. Road handling seems excellent. Snow performance is also quite good (traction control seems more of an issue in snow than tires).

If you have a Costco near you use them! They were having a $60.00 off sale on MXV-4's. They also rotate the tires free forever and have a lot of services that tire dealers charge for.
[/b]

Your MXV4s at 195/60HR15 do 862 revs/mile (vs the original Integrity's at 855, note that these numbers increase as tires wear). This accounts for an artificial 0.8% increase in both your speedo and odo calibration. Your MPG would be artificially (meaning - not real) increased as well by about 0.4 mpg by this change in calibration so the new tires account for a little less real improved MPG than you quote. I also saw a small improvement with my 185/65HR15 MXV4s, but it was small due the the 849 revs per mile of these tires (0.7% reduction in all readings). I found that the improved MPG is more significant in cold weather, there was little change in warm weather.

JeffD

[John in LB]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jdenenberg @ Mar 18 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]407901[/snapback]</div>

Your MXV4s at 195/60HR15 do 862 revs/mile (vs the original Integrity's at 855, note that these numbers increase as tires wear). This accounts for an artificial 0.8% increase in both your speedo and odo calibration. Your MPG would be artificially (meaning - not real) increased as well by about 0.4 mpg by this change in calibration so the new tires account for a little less real improved MPG than you quote. I also saw a small improvement with my 185/65HR15 MXV4s, but it was small due the the 849 revs per mile of these tires (0.7% reduction in all readings). I found that the improved MPG is more significant in cold weather, there was little change in warm weather.

JeffD
[/b]

I know this is a little unrelated. but I was thinking of buying the MXV4+ sized at 185/65HR15, because it is just slightly fewer revolutions than the stock tire.

I figure that the speedometer generally runs high ... and with a taller tire, it would offset this built in bias ever so slightly.

A possible secondary benefit is a slight reduction in engine RPM - which under low load conditions - could result in a minute improvement in mileage.

Anyway, that's just my idea... as to what I will do in the future when its time to replace my tires.

[jdenenberg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 18 2007, 03:36 PM) [snapback]407949[/snapback]</div>

I know this is a little unrelated. but I was thinking of buying the MXV4+ sized at 185/65HR15, because it is just slightly fewer revolutions than the stock tire.[/b]

That's the size on my Prius

I figure that the speedometer generally runs high ... and with a taller tire, it would offset this built in bias ever so slightly.[/b]

Just be careful not to get a speeding ticket

A possible secondary benefit is a slight reduction in engine RPM - which under low load conditions - could result in a minute improvement in mileage.[/b]

Actually, changing the tire size will not directly affect the engine RPM in a Prius as there is no fixed "gear ratio". The engine RPM is adjusted on the fly by the ECU as needed to provide the required HP to keep the car moving (with a little help from its friendly MGs).

JeffD

[qbee42]

I use the MXV4+ Energy in the stock size. As for tire wear, I've never been able to wear out the tread on a tire; old age and sun always get the sidewalls on mine before the tread wears out, or the rubber gets so hard it's no longer safe. We run them all year, including the winter, and they do fine with our Northern Michigan winters.

Tom