Another Case of Dealership Overfilling Oil

DougSlug · 03-24-2007, 02:21 PM

I've read other posts about overfilling oil, so I was aware of the possibility. Today, when I took my 2006 for my 10,000 change, I experienced it.

Since I had them fill with synthetic oil, they charged me by the quart (I expected that). When I got the bill, I noticed they charged me for 5 quarts. Knowing the rated oil capacity to be 3.7 qt (stated in the manual for the "with filter" spec), I asked them to check it out since I didn't want them to overfill. The service rep called the tech, then told me that they used 4.25 qt. and reluctantly removed one quart from the bill. I was still concerned about the amount. Why I didn't check it in the parking lot before I left I can't explain.

The dealership, Team Toyota in Langhorne, PA, is 15 miles from home. I go there because it was the only dealership that had Prius in stock a year ago when I bought it, and I like the idea of buying and servicing the car at the same place. They recently expanded their service facility, and I was curious to check it out.

When I got home, the curiosity took over, and I checked the level. Sure enough, it was about 1/4" over the FULL marking on the dipstick. Crap. Now I was going to have to do something about it.

I called them and spoke to the service manager. I told her I wanted it to be taken care of as soon as I got there, and she agreed to do that. When I checked in with one of the service reps and explained the situation, he asked, "Well, is the Prius different from every other Toyota?" in a tone that clearly said he thought I was full of crap. I explained that it is a smaller engine than you might expect, so that was why the oil volume is lower. Meanwhile the service manager joined the conversation, briskly making sure the car got into the service bay. She told me that because I checked the level hot, it would be higher. I told her I checked it twice, once warm, and once after sitting for an hour, and the level was the same both times.

I sat down to wait, checking the user manual to make sure my facts were straight (yeah, I know, I should have done that first). In the manual, it states that the level should be checked with the hybrid system up to operating temperature with the engine stopped. That's what I thought. So I went to show the service manager, saying , "I don't want to beat a dead horse about this, but I just wanted to educate you on this...". Her reply was "I don't need to be educated". Then I said, "Well, then, are you interested in satisfying your customer?" Frankly, I forget the rest of that conversation.

A short while later, she came back and said that a 20-year experienced technician found that it was not overfilled, and she took me back to prove me wrong. When I got back there, she introduced me to the technician as he was pulling the dipstick. There it was, still 1/4" over FULL. Naturally, at this point he agreed that it was overfilled, admitting to the service manager that he had checked it while running previously before she came to get me. At this point, they went ahead and rectified the situation. The service manager said she would put a note in my customer record that only certain technicians should work on the car in the future. I said I felt that anyone who might work on Prius should probably be aware of the overfilling issue. I just hope she learned something.

Here's what I got from this little episode:

(1) Dealerships need to know that Prius may introduce some variations into certain servicing routines, and must be prepared to make the necessary adjustments in their operations. I took that for granted, but was proven wrong.

(2) Dealerships also need to realize that a lot of Prius owners may know more about their cars than some service technicians, and certainly more than the average customer knows about his average car. (smug alert). For this reason, they need to be a little more tolerant of the Prius owner's apparent fussiness, and consider the possibility that he may actually know what he's talking about. (sarcasm alert).

(3) If the service manager started with the attitude of "the customer MAY, in fact, be right" rather than "the customer is wrong", things would have gone smoother, and she wouldn't have had to swallow her pride quite as hard.

(4) It is more grown up to let others realize their mistakes quietly than to gloat and make a fuss. I avoided gloating, but I did make a bit of a fuss. I think that was necessary to get the point across.

- Doug

danatt · 03-24-2007, 06:06 PM

I brought mine in to Hartford Toyota for the 10,000 mile service on Thursday. I told the service guy that the previous time (5000 mile service) they had overfilled the oil by about 1/2" on the dipstick, and to please keep an eye on it. He said he thought that was odd because he said the fill levels are specified by Toyota (he said they had a chart on the wall in the service area). I didn't go into details with him, but I got the distinct impression from what he said that the technician sets the amount on an automated dispenser that pumps the specified amount of oil. I told him that maybe there's an error there, because I know it's common from talking about this with other Prius owners that other dealerships are overfilling the oil on the Prius too.

Well, sure enough. I checked the dipstick today - 1/2" over the fill amount, again. I called and left a message with the service advisor reminding him of our conversation and the fact that we are once again 1/2" over on the dipstick. When I talk to him on Monday I'll ask him what the specified amount on their chart is.

Does anybody know if 1/2" over on the dipstick really matters? I've read on other posts here that some folks have had the check engine light come on, corresponding to some code P3191, that supposedly means you got oil somewhere you weren't supposed to after having it overfilled. But that's never happened to me. I'm wondering if I should really be worrying about this or not.

Oh, yeah... If we were driving EV's, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

jackovalltrades · 03-24-2007, 10:07 PM

I've got 3k miles on my 07 so I haven't changed the oil just yet. After reading these posts though there's no chance I'm taking it to a dealer or any other shop. Sounds like it's just not worth the aggravation. By the time you go to the dealer, check it yourself and have to double back to argue with them to remove a quart... I'm annoyed just typing it let alone doing it

rfred · 03-24-2007, 10:14 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(danatt @ Mar 24 2007, 05:06 PM) [snapback]411654[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

I brought mine in to Hartford Toyota for the 10,000 mile service on Thursday. I told the service guy that the previous time (5000 mile service) they had overfilled the oil by about 1/2" on the dipstick, and to please keep an eye on it. He said he thought that was odd because he said the fill levels are specified by Toyota (he said they had a chart on the wall in the service area). I didn't go into details with him, but I got the distinct impression from what he said that the technician sets the amount on an automated dispenser that pumps the specified amount of oil. I told him that maybe there's an error there, because I know it's common from talking about this with other Prius owners that other dealerships are overfilling the oil on the Prius too.

Well, sure enough. I checked the dipstick today - 1/2" over the fill amount, again. I called and left a message with the service advisor reminding him of our conversation and the fact that we are once again 1/2" over on the dipstick. When I talk to him on Monday I'll ask him what the specified amount on their chart is.

Does anybody know if 1/2" over on the dipstick really matters? I've read on other posts here that some folks have had the check engine light come on, corresponding to some code P3191, that supposedly means you got oil somewhere you weren't supposed to after having it overfilled. But that's never happened to me. I'm wondering if I should really be worrying about this or not.

Oh, yeah... If we were driving EV's, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
[/b]

Any amount of oil over the fill mark matters. I can't understand why Toyota has so completely dropped the ball when it comes to doing one of the simplest maintenance procedures on one of their flagship vehicles. And what is really scary is the thousands of Prius owners who simply don't know about this issue and are driving their cars with too much oil. I have been to two dealers in the KC area and their service departments are totally clueless about the issue. The first one even volunteered to put 10W30 in the car because, "That's what all Toyota engines require."

I will be taking 3 quarts of Mobil 1 to the dealer when I have oil changed. And they will make notes and warn me that the car will not have enough oil in it. I will then drive seven miles to my home and put the other half quart in.

And if they're so clueless about the oil I don't even want to think what they may do if something really goes wrong.

And by the way, you might want to check the air pressure in your tires - they love to have it at the recommended pressure; I think it's somewhere in the area of 33 pounds per square inch. If you want to have the best gas mileage that will make a big hit!

tochatihu · 03-25-2007, 08:11 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rfred @ Mar 24 2007, 07:14 PM) [snapback]411712[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Any amount of oil over the fill mark matters. I can't understand why Toyota has so completely dropped the ball when it comes to doing one of the simplest maintenance procedures on one of their flagship vehicles...

[/b]

Those using Toyota shops for engine oil changing might wish to leave a copy of technical service bulletin EG050R-04 in their cars for the service visit. See if you can print it from this link:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QGQGRqwLGYwpl...s/EG050R-04.gif

Bill Merchant · 03-25-2007, 04:36 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Mar 25 2007, 06:11 AM) [snapback]411841[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Those using Toyota shops for engine oil changing might wish to leave a copy of technical service bulletin EG050R-04 in their cars for the service visit. See if you can print it from this link:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QGQGRqwLGYwpl...s/EG050R-04.gif\[/b]

Nope, got a 404, Document not found.

pewd · 03-25-2007, 05:48 PM

unfortunately i dont think this is unique to toyota -
bring in an old F100 pick-em-up to a ford dealer, you'd just as likely
have over or under filled on oil also.

e.g., most of the shops are too quick and careless on simple maintenance like this.

Tyrin · 03-25-2007, 07:04 PM

From what I can see online, this overfill problem is the NORM, both at oil changes and from the factory, and has been for over two years. I just got my 2007 a week ago, checked the oil today, 1/4 inch over the full line sure enough.

Has anyone actually tried to ask Toyota HQ about this? A friend of mine suggested it could be that the dipsticks are stamped wrong, not too much oil...How would we know for sure?

tochatihu · 03-26-2007, 11:10 AM

[attachmentid=7096]<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Mar 25 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]412003[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Nope, got a 404, Document not found.
[/b]

perhaps I can attach the gif

Highly ImPriused · 03-26-2007, 12:11 PM

Thanks! I assume that would also be applicable to the 2007, right?

If I'm reading that correctly, it should take 3.9 quarts. What does "(3.7, 3.3)" refer to?

03-24-2007, 06:06 PM	#2
danatt Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 142 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	I brought mine in to Hartford Toyota for the 10,000 mile service on Thursday. I told the service guy that the previous time (5000 mile service) they had overfilled the oil by about 1/2" on the dipstick, and to please keep an eye on it. He said he thought that was odd because he said the fill levels are specified by Toyota (he said they had a chart on the wall in the service area). I didn't go into details with him, but I got the distinct impression from what he said that the technician sets the amount on an automated dispenser that pumps the specified amount of oil. I told him that maybe there's an error there, because I know it's common from talking about this with other Prius owners that other dealerships are overfilling the oil on the Prius too. Well, sure enough. I checked the dipstick today - 1/2" over the fill amount, again. I called and left a message with the service advisor reminding him of our conversation and the fact that we are once again 1/2" over on the dipstick. When I talk to him on Monday I'll ask him what the specified amount on their chart is. Does anybody know if 1/2" over on the dipstick really matters? I've read on other posts here that some folks have had the check engine light come on, corresponding to some code P3191, that supposedly means you got oil somewhere you weren't supposed to after having it overfilled. But that's never happened to me. I'm wondering if I should really be worrying about this or not. Oh, yeah... If we were driving EV's, we wouldn't be having this conversation. __________________ I *LOVE* my *PRIUS. I HATE* that it still gets all of its energy from *GASOLINE. GET THE DENOMINATOR TO* ZERO.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Yes Virginia, Overfilling Oil does cause problems	Tempus	Gen II Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting	35	05-20-2007 08:13 PM
Fob case	Jennjay	Gen II Prius Main Forum	5	09-11-2006 12:55 AM
Overfilling Oil	marshaks	Gen II Prius Technical Discussion	8	05-29-2006 09:28 PM
In case some might not know...	Mystery Squid	Fred's House of Pancakes	34	03-23-2006 02:47 PM
FOB/SKS - CASE/COVER	jezroj	Gen II Prius Main Forum	9	06-24-2005 03:08 PM

03-24-2007, 02:21 PM	#1
DougSlug Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Trenton, NJ Posts: 115 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	I've read other posts about overfilling oil, so I was aware of the possibility. Today, when I took my 2006 for my 10,000 change, I experienced it. Since I had them fill with synthetic oil, they charged me by the quart (I expected that). When I got the bill, I noticed they charged me for 5 quarts. Knowing the rated oil capacity to be 3.7 qt (stated in the manual for the "with filter" spec), I asked them to check it out since I didn't want them to overfill. The service rep called the tech, then told me that they used 4.25 qt. and reluctantly removed one quart from the bill. I was still concerned about the amount. Why I didn't check it in the parking lot before I left I can't explain. The dealership, Team Toyota in Langhorne, PA, is 15 miles from home. I go there because it was the only dealership that had Prius in stock a year ago when I bought it, and I like the idea of buying and servicing the car at the same place. They recently expanded their service facility, and I was curious to check it out. When I got home, the curiosity took over, and I checked the level. Sure enough, it was about 1/4" over the FULL marking on the dipstick. Crap. Now I was going to have to do something about it. I called them and spoke to the service manager. I told her I wanted it to be taken care of as soon as I got there, and she agreed to do that. When I checked in with one of the service reps and explained the situation, he asked, "Well, is the Prius different from every other Toyota?" in a tone that clearly said he thought I was full of crap. I explained that it is a smaller engine than you might expect, so that was why the oil volume is lower. Meanwhile the service manager joined the conversation, briskly making sure the car got into the service bay. She told me that because I checked the level hot, it would be higher. I told her I checked it twice, once warm, and once after sitting for an hour, and the level was the same both times. I sat down to wait, checking the user manual to make sure my facts were straight (yeah, I know, I should have done that first). In the manual, it states that the level should be checked with the hybrid system up to operating temperature with the engine stopped. That's what I thought. So I went to show the service manager, saying , "I don't want to beat a dead horse about this, but I just wanted to educate you on this...". Her reply was "I don't need to be educated". Then I said, "Well, then, are you interested in satisfying your customer?" Frankly, I forget the rest of that conversation. A short while later, she came back and said that a 20-year experienced technician found that it was not overfilled, and she took me back to prove me wrong. When I got back there, she introduced me to the technician as he was pulling the dipstick. There it was, still 1/4" over FULL. Naturally, at this point he agreed that it was overfilled, admitting to the service manager that he had checked it while running previously before she came to get me. At this point, they went ahead and rectified the situation. The service manager said she would put a note in my customer record that only certain technicians should work on the car in the future. I said I felt that anyone who might work on Prius should probably be aware of the overfilling issue. I just hope she learned something. Here's what I got from this little episode: (1) Dealerships need to know that Prius may introduce some variations into certain servicing routines, and must be prepared to make the necessary adjustments in their operations. I took that for granted, but was proven wrong. (2) Dealerships also need to realize that a lot of Prius owners may know more about their cars than some service technicians, and certainly more than the average customer knows about his average car. (smug alert). For this reason, they need to be a little more tolerant of the Prius owner's apparent fussiness, and consider the possibility that he may actually know what he's talking about. (sarcasm alert). (3) If the service manager started with the attitude of "the customer MAY, in fact, be right" rather than "the customer is wrong", things would have gone smoother, and she wouldn't have had to swallow her pride quite as hard. (4) It is more grown up to let others realize their mistakes quietly than to gloat and make a fuss. I avoided gloating, but I did make a bit of a fuss. I think that was necessary to get the point across. - Doug

03-24-2007, 10:07 PM	#3
jackovalltrades Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 45 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	I've got 3k miles on my 07 so I haven't changed the oil just yet. After reading these posts though there's no chance I'm taking it to a dealer or any other shop. Sounds like it's just not worth the aggravation. By the time you go to the dealer, check it yourself and have to double back to argue with them to remove a quart... I'm annoyed just typing it let alone doing it

03-25-2007, 05:48 PM	#7
pewd Clarinet Dude Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 332 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: Package: #1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 1	unfortunately i dont think this is unique to toyota - bring in an old F100 pick-em-up to a ford dealer, you'd just as likely have over or under filled on oil also. e.g., most of the shops are too quick and careless on simple maintenance like this.

03-25-2007, 07:04 PM	#8
Tyrin Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 273 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	From what I can see online, this overfill problem is the NORM, both at oil changes and from the factory, and has been for over two years. I just got my 2007 a week ago, checked the oil today, 1/4 inch over the full line sure enough. Has anyone actually tried to ask Toyota HQ about this? A friend of mine suggested it could be that the dipsticks are stamped wrong, not too much oil...How would we know for sure?

03-26-2007, 12:11 PM	#10
Highly ImPriused Impressive Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Western NY Posts: 233 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: Package: #1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Thanks! I assume that would also be applicable to the 2007, right? If I'm reading that correctly, it should take 3.9 quarts. What does "(3.7, 3.3)" refer to?