Need opinions: Independent Toyota hybrid specialist?

trance · 04-22-2007, 09:27 PM

Hi folks, anonymous version of another PC poster here (a formality, really) with an inquiry that needs to remain anonymous for the time being.

Seriously considering starting up an independent hybrid business over here, real small scale since I don't have a ton of startup capital. I am already working on the first big investment, the Toyota scan tool. This would be enough, in combination with all my other tools and training, to get me off the ground. If this gets big, I would rent a bay from a local shop to have a lift and other such equipment.

I would be working another full-time job (no conflict of interest, wouldn't get fired for the side jobs) and doing this as a side gig for some time until things got busy enough to support a full-time gig, if that would happen... but would be doing everything but oil changes, tire rotations, and warranty work on the hybrids.

Made up a tentative flyer already, detailing the basics of the operation, listed below. Would you go to someone like this in your area to work on your Prius/Hycam/HiHy? Feedback? Please let me know what you think!

Independent Toyota Hybrid Specialist
Tired of going to dealerships to service your Toyota hybrid?
Prius --- Highlander Hybrid --- Camry Hybrid

Hybrid Synergy Drive specialist:
ASE Master Certified Technician
Toyota Certified Technician
10 years vehicle repair and car audio experience
2.5 years dealership, diagnostic, and hybrid vehicle experience

Services offered:
Diagnostics: in-dash warning lights, check engine lights, drivability issues
Repair work: can do most repair jobs
Major interval services: 30k, 60k services, etc
Convenience: smart key programming, adjust user-defined settings
Aftermarket add-ons: backup cameras, satellite radios, EV switches, etc
Warranty consultations: will it be covered by Toyota’s warranty?
Other preventive maintenance

Happy to recommend other outlets for:
Oil changes and Tire rotations/balancing
Body work
Warranty repairs

Service philosophy:
Hybrid vehicles are meant to be low-maintenance. I do not recommend
unneeded services, to keep your total cost of ownership low. I am out to fix your car right the first time should it need repair. Repairs are made using only Genuine Toyota parts.

Equipment:
I am equipped with Toyota’s diagnostic scan tool to access the
hybrid-specific functions of your vehicle, and connected to Toyota’s
technical information service to keep most up-to-date on hybrids.

Prices:
Please call for estimate. Labor rates approximately 50% of dealer rates. Cash or check payment only, please.

Mobile service:
For an additional mobile charge, I can come to you! Please call to set up an appointment time.

**efusco** · 04-22-2007, 10:35 PM

Gosh, who could this possibly be? LOL!

I like the idea in concept, guess I'd want to know what advantages there are to going to you instead of my dealer. Are you cheaper? Are you more experienced? Are you faster and more readily available?

If I didn't know you I'd be hesitant to trust someone claiming to know about hybrids outside of the Toyota dealership and would need some pretty good incentive to go to you.

With the above in mind, it could be a tough sell, esp. starting up.

The concept, however, I like.

trance · 04-22-2007, 10:59 PM

Good points, Evan. The pseudonym is a necessity at this point in time with the hurricane-force winds that are about to start blowin'...

So I did mention labor rates ~50% of dealer's... optional mobile service, honest service philosophy. Should maybe highlight dealership experience more, hm? When I can use my PC reputation I believe that will help too, at least maybe with word of mouth.

Also added into the flyer, that I've been a Prius owner for 2 years myself.

The scantool is the huge investment that's just a little bit scary. But it will pay off over time if things turn out.

**efusco** · 04-23-2007, 01:01 AM

Just a suggestion, you might push the aftermarket add-ons/mods side of things even to the point of keeping some of those items in stock...purchasing several of the auto door lock mods, Cruise control EV mods, etc. from Coastal (? at a discount?) and being able to have people make an appt. to come in for those installs. Likewise with the OEM EV buttons, Engine block heater, etc.

If you could get really fancy and adapt the auto-park system as an installable mode that would be pretty darn cool too. Not to mention the shark-fin antenna and with the XM radio antenna hidden beneath.

Bill Merchant · 04-23-2007, 01:04 AM

HSD vehicles ARE low maintenance. It's just oil and filter changes, which you won't do. No income for you there.

Gen 1s are mostly out of warranty. Gen 2 2004s are beginning to fall out of warranty, most newer cars will be under warranty for most major stuff for a while. Since the number of Gen 1s and early Gen 2s is smaller than the number of later Gen 2s, that universe is fairly small. Since you won't do warranty work, no income for you there.

Who will be your customers? The few who want something tweaked? The small percentage who want someone to attach the BT Tech plate? I just don't see a big target market. Not much income for you there.

I would always choose to take my car to a specialist independent mechanic, rather than the stealership. The stealership is too big to care, inependent guys usually care about the car they specialize in. The problem is, I won't need your services for a while. And if I have the Platinum Extended warranty I bought here on PC, maybe even longer.

I know the State of Mind is a big place, but how many people within 30 miles of you drive an HSD? How will you get the word out? Where will you put your flyers?

I don't mean to be negative, just realistic.

trance · 04-23-2007, 01:21 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 22 2007, 09:01 PM) [snapback]428175[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Just a suggestion, you might push the aftermarket add-ons/mods side of things even to the point of keeping some of those items in stock...purchasing several of the auto door lock mods, Cruise control EV mods, etc. from Coastal (? at a discount?) and being able to have people make an appt. to come in for those installs. Likewise with the OEM EV buttons, Engine block heater, etc.

If you could get really fancy and adapt the auto-park system as an installable mode that would be pretty darn cool too. Not to mention the shark-fin antenna and with the XM radio antenna hidden beneath.
[/b]

Hmm. Should things turn out, that might be a good way to go. Need to get the word out on those aftermarket accessories. EBH here is unlikely to get much attention

but plenty of other things that can be done. Again, depending on how things work out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Apr 22 2007, 09:04 PM) [snapback]428179[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

HSD vehicles ARE low maintenance. It's just oil and filter changes, which you won't do. No income for you there.

Gen 1s are mostly out of warranty. Gen 2 2004s are beginning to fall out of warranty, most newer cars will be under warranty for most major stuff for a while. Since the number of Gen 1s and early Gen 2s is smaller than the number of later Gen 2s, that universe is fairly small. Since you won't do warranty work, no income for you there.

Who will be your customers? The few who want something tweaked? The small percentage who want someone to attach the BT Tech plate? I just don't see a big target market. Not much income for you there.

I would always choose to take my car to a specialist independent mechanic, rather than the stealership. The stealership is too big to care, inependent guys usually care about the car they specialize in. The problem is, I won't need your services for a while. And if I have the Platinum Extended warranty I bought here on PC, maybe even longer.

I know the State of Mind is a big place, but how many people within 30 miles of you drive an HSD? How will you get the word out? Where will you put your flyers?

I don't mean to be negative, just realistic.
[/b]

Yes, the oil change/tire rotation thing is the bread and butter for hybrids. But there's not much profit in it anyway, except in high volume. Plus you've got the disposal issues and whatnot for the oil. There's no sense in getting into that and competing with Jiffy Lube.

Can't do warranty work because I obviously won't be a "Toyota Authorized Repair Center" anytime soon. But the major services are still fair game, as are the "oops I was tinkering and screwed this thing up" type situations. Not everyone buys the EW and I KNOW people aren't happy about having pretty much no alternative but the dealership for service.

As I said, this would probably end up being a side gig to a regular full time job, as I'm fully aware this will take a long time to build up to a full-time deal.

And we're near one of the nation's busiest hybrid service departments, if that tells you of the pool of potential satisfied customers. I already have quite a few connections, and planned on starting small anyway.

Thanks for the feedback. I am trying to look at this from all sides before leaping in.

Bill Merchant · 04-23-2007, 03:14 AM

Good luck! I hope you are a great success if you decide to jump. Like I said, I prefer to take my car to someone who likes my kind of car. At a dealer, you don't know who will work on it.

The only real work I've had done was the steering shaft SSC, which had to be done by a dealer, of course. They didn't follow the Toyota procedure, the tech even told me, "We don't have to secure the steering wheel, we mark the shaft." Needless to say, they had to do an alignment to try to get the steering wheel square again. And I don't go to that dealer anymore.

**efusco** · 04-23-2007, 08:36 AM

Despite the lack of profit I'd encourage you to reconsider the possibility of doing oil changes/tire rotations for established or first time customers.

If I were going to use you for the rare things, 60k service and infrequent non-warranty repair, I would rather go to the same place for my oil changes and such too. I'd like the idea that you "know my car" so to speak. I think maintaining the rapport is going to be a very important part of a business like you describe...that personal 'fellow hybrid guy' aspect.

I guess this is something you could later discontinue if your business got such that it clearly was costing your money and wasn't worth the time. But if I'm going to be the place I have the tow truck take my car when it won't start tomorrow then you need to be "my hybrid guy" that I think of right off the bat, otherwise the knee jerk response is going to be to go to the stealership.

tochatihu · 04-23-2007, 10:46 AM

Very interesting idea, trance. Some URLs which will be self-explanatory:

http://www.auto-careers.org/Qualified%20sh...20consumers.htm

http://www.artsautomotive.com/Hybrid.htm

http://www.autobeyours.com/

Even though Toyota does not specify transmission fluid changes (in the US), there is some evidence that they are appropriate precautionary maintenance. Similarly, seems to me that people ought to have their brake fluid at least checked for water absorption. Changing it in the new model Prius is apparently complicated. Waiting to change it until after internal damage from corrosion would not be smart.

Some areas that concern many Prius drivers might be great specialties for you. Thinking about suitable 12 volt batteries at a reasonable price, and troubleshooting suspension alignment (etc.) when there are concerns about high speed/wind stability.

I used to think there could be a cottage industry rebuilding HV batteries, but for the most part they are turning out to be way too reliable.

I'd be happy to bequeath my classic Prius accelerator pedal rebuilding. It's been real slow lately...

Aftermarket installations of data scanners, audio, and 110 VAC inverters (my particular favorite) seem like a good sideline.

Engine oil changes would probably be low-profit, but there may be a niche for a provider that bundles this with 'appropriate' OC intervals, synthetic oil, and used oil analysis.

Your website, linking to great Prius info on the web (like PriusChat), and perhaps highlighting a 'Prius question of the week' (with answers from you or other attributed sources), would really enhance visibility and traffic. In other words, I am suggesting that you should have a web site.

Last thing might be to consider a move to the highest population of hybrid vehicles. But then again, I don't know where you are...

trance · 04-23-2007, 03:02 PM

Thanks for the feedback, all. Still can't say much about who/where I am, conflict of interest would get me in trouble with current situation. Though when I announce it as myself in the near future... noone will be surprised, I don't think

On oil changes- hate to say it but it wouldn't make sense from the customer or the technician standpoint. It poses an interesting catch-22, really. Need to build basic business relationships by doing the basics, yet don't have enough business at first to rent a bay and use proper equipment. Doing that kind of stuff without a lift, the crawling around on the ground stuff, all the time would be very bad on an already bad back. And that's just not worth the decreased quality of life, for side job that's not going to be my main source of income. Can't jeopardize the health needed to make the primary income to do the side job.

Website... yes, fantastic idea. Was discussing this just yesterday. Need to come up with a design and such but the idea to put one up is firmly there, no doubt. Also, no need to move... I'm in a very high traffic Prius area already.

Come on... 148 views and only three of you have an opinion? Would you consider using a WELL QUALIFIED independent tech? Anyone?

04-22-2007, 10:35 PM	#2
efusco Troll Slayer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 17,229 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 49 Thanked 249 Times in 148 Posts Friends: 37	Gosh, who could this possibly be? LOL! I like the idea in concept, guess I'd want to know what advantages there are to going to you instead of my dealer. Are you cheaper? Are you more experienced? Are you faster and more readily available? If I didn't know you I'd be hesitant to trust someone claiming to know about hybrids outside of the Toyota dealership and would need some pretty good incentive to go to you. With the above in mind, it could be a tough sell, esp. starting up. The concept, however, I like. __________________ Evan E. Fusco, MD "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." -Andrew Jackson

04-23-2007, 01:04 AM	#5
Bill Merchant absit invidia Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA \| Oregon \| Portland area \| 97004 \| Posts: 4,100 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: Package: #5 Thanks: 18 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts Friends: 60	HSD vehicles ARE low maintenance. It's just oil and filter changes, which you won't do. No income for you there. Gen 1s are mostly out of warranty. Gen 2 2004s are beginning to fall out of warranty, most newer cars will be under warranty for most major stuff for a while. Since the number of Gen 1s and early Gen 2s is smaller than the number of later Gen 2s, that universe is fairly small. Since you won't do warranty work, no income for you there. Who will be your customers? The few who want something tweaked? The small percentage who want someone to attach the BT Tech plate? I just don't see a big target market. Not much income for you there. I would always choose to take my car to a specialist independent mechanic, rather than the stealership. The stealership is too big to care, inependent guys usually care about the car they specialize in. The problem is, I won't need your services for a while. And if I have the Platinum Extended warranty I bought here on PC, maybe even longer. I know the State of Mind is a big place, but how many people within 30 miles of you drive an HSD? How will you get the word out? Where will you put your flyers? I don't mean to be negative, just realistic. __________________ Bill Bill.Merchant@PortlandHSD.info 2007 NL 5 Silver Wraith • 2005 BC 6 Silver Cloud Portland Area HSD Meetup Group: PortlandHSD.info Become carbon neutral: Carbonfund.org or TerraPass.com > < Follow me on

04-23-2007, 10:46 AM	#9
tochatihu Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kunming Yunnan China Posts: 2,408 My Car: 2001 Prius Model: Package: Pioneer #1 Thanks: 1 Thanked 38 Times in 38 Posts Friends: 14	Very interesting idea, trance. Some URLs which will be self-explanatory: http://www.auto-careers.org/Qualified%20sh...20consumers.htm http://www.artsautomotive.com/Hybrid.htm http://www.autobeyours.com/ Even though Toyota does not specify transmission fluid changes (in the US), there is some evidence that they are appropriate precautionary maintenance. Similarly, seems to me that people ought to have their brake fluid at least checked for water absorption. Changing it in the new model Prius is apparently complicated. Waiting to change it until after internal damage from corrosion would not be smart. Some areas that concern many Prius drivers might be great specialties for you. Thinking about suitable 12 volt batteries at a reasonable price, and troubleshooting suspension alignment (etc.) when there are concerns about high speed/wind stability. I used to think there could be a cottage industry rebuilding HV batteries, but for the most part they are turning out to be way too reliable. I'd be happy to bequeath my classic Prius accelerator pedal rebuilding. It's been real slow lately... Aftermarket installations of data scanners, audio, and 110 VAC inverters (my particular favorite) seem like a good sideline. Engine oil changes would probably be low-profit, but there may be a niche for a provider that bundles this with 'appropriate' OC intervals, synthetic oil, and used oil analysis. Your website, linking to great Prius info on the web (like PriusChat), and perhaps highlighting a 'Prius question of the week' (with answers from you or other attributed sources), would really enhance visibility and traffic. In other words, I am suggesting that you should have a web site. Last thing might be to consider a move to the highest population of hybrid vehicles. But then again, I don't know where you are... __________________ DAS Tochatihu, the Hopi hummingbird kachina

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04-22-2007, 09:27 PM	#1
trance Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Hi folks, anonymous version of another PC poster here (a formality, really) with an inquiry that needs to remain anonymous for the time being. Seriously considering starting up an independent hybrid business over here, real small scale since I don't have a ton of startup capital. I am already working on the first big investment, the Toyota scan tool. This would be enough, in combination with all my other tools and training, to get me off the ground. If this gets big, I would rent a bay from a local shop to have a lift and other such equipment. I would be working another full-time job (no conflict of interest, wouldn't get fired for the side jobs) and doing this as a side gig for some time until things got busy enough to support a full-time gig, if that would happen... but would be doing everything but oil changes, tire rotations, and warranty work on the hybrids. Made up a tentative flyer already, detailing the basics of the operation, listed below. Would you go to someone like this in your area to work on your Prius/Hycam/HiHy? Feedback? Please let me know what you think! Independent Toyota Hybrid Specialist Tired of going to dealerships to service your Toyota hybrid? Prius --- Highlander Hybrid --- Camry Hybrid Hybrid Synergy Drive specialist: ASE Master Certified Technician Toyota Certified Technician 10 years vehicle repair and car audio experience 2.5 years dealership, diagnostic, and hybrid vehicle experience Services offered: Diagnostics: in-dash warning lights, check engine lights, drivability issues Repair work: can do most repair jobs Major interval services: 30k, 60k services, etc Convenience: smart key programming, adjust user-defined settings Aftermarket add-ons: backup cameras, satellite radios, EV switches, etc Warranty consultations: will it be covered by Toyota’s warranty? Other preventive maintenance Happy to recommend other outlets for: Oil changes and Tire rotations/balancing Body work Warranty repairs Service philosophy: Hybrid vehicles are meant to be low-maintenance. I do not recommend unneeded services, to keep your total cost of ownership low. I am out to fix your car right the first time should it need repair. Repairs are made using only Genuine Toyota parts. Equipment: I am equipped with Toyota’s diagnostic scan tool to access the hybrid-specific functions of your vehicle, and connected to Toyota’s technical information service to keep most up-to-date on hybrids. Prices: Please call for estimate. Labor rates approximately 50% of dealer rates. Cash or check payment only, please. Mobile service: For an additional mobile charge, I can come to you! Please call to set up an appointment time.

04-22-2007, 10:59 PM	#3
trance Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Good points, Evan. The pseudonym is a necessity at this point in time with the hurricane-force winds that are about to start blowin'... So I did mention labor rates ~50% of dealer's... optional mobile service, honest service philosophy. Should maybe highlight dealership experience more, hm? When I can use my PC reputation I believe that will help too, at least maybe with word of mouth. Also added into the flyer, that I've been a Prius owner for 2 years myself. The scantool is the huge investment that's just a little bit scary. But it will pay off over time if things turn out.

04-23-2007, 01:01 AM	#4
efusco Troll Slayer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 17,229 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 49 Thanked 249 Times in 148 Posts Friends: 37	Just a suggestion, you might push the aftermarket add-ons/mods side of things even to the point of keeping some of those items in stock...purchasing several of the auto door lock mods, Cruise control EV mods, etc. from Coastal (? at a discount?) and being able to have people make an appt. to come in for those installs. Likewise with the OEM EV buttons, Engine block heater, etc. If you could get really fancy and adapt the auto-park system as an installable mode that would be pretty darn cool too. Not to mention the shark-fin antenna and with the XM radio antenna hidden beneath.

04-23-2007, 03:14 AM	#7
Bill Merchant absit invidia Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA \| Oregon \| Portland area \| 97004 \| Posts: 4,100 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: Package: #5 Thanks: 18 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts Friends: 60	Good luck! I hope you are a great success if you decide to jump. Like I said, I prefer to take my car to someone who likes my kind of car. At a dealer, you don't know who will work on it. The only real work I've had done was the steering shaft SSC, which had to be done by a dealer, of course. They didn't follow the Toyota procedure, the tech even told me, "We don't have to secure the steering wheel, we mark the shaft." Needless to say, they had to do an alignment to try to get the steering wheel square again. And I don't go to that dealer anymore.

04-23-2007, 08:36 AM	#8
efusco Troll Slayer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 17,229 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 49 Thanked 249 Times in 148 Posts Friends: 37	Despite the lack of profit I'd encourage you to reconsider the possibility of doing oil changes/tire rotations for established or first time customers. If I were going to use you for the rare things, 60k service and infrequent non-warranty repair, I would rather go to the same place for my oil changes and such too. I'd like the idea that you "know my car" so to speak. I think maintaining the rapport is going to be a very important part of a business like you describe...that personal 'fellow hybrid guy' aspect. I guess this is something you could later discontinue if your business got such that it clearly was costing your money and wasn't worth the time. But if I'm going to be the place I have the tow truck take my car when it won't start tomorrow then you need to be "my hybrid guy" that I think of right off the bat, otherwise the knee jerk response is going to be to go to the stealership.

04-23-2007, 03:02 PM	#10
trance Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Thanks for the feedback, all. Still can't say much about who/where I am, conflict of interest would get me in trouble with current situation. Though when I announce it as myself in the near future... noone will be surprised, I don't think On oil changes- hate to say it but it wouldn't make sense from the customer or the technician standpoint. It poses an interesting catch-22, really. Need to build basic business relationships by doing the basics, yet don't have enough business at first to rent a bay and use proper equipment. Doing that kind of stuff without a lift, the crawling around on the ground stuff, all the time would be very bad on an already bad back. And that's just not worth the decreased quality of life, for side job that's not going to be my main source of income. Can't jeopardize the health needed to make the primary income to do the side job. Website... yes, fantastic idea. Was discussing this just yesterday. Need to come up with a design and such but the idea to put one up is firmly there, no doubt. Also, no need to move... I'm in a very high traffic Prius area already. Come on... 148 views and only three of you have an opinion? Would you consider using a WELL QUALIFIED independent tech? Anyone?