Not enough oil causes the overfill-related CELs too.

galaxee · 05-14-2007, 01:12 AM

DH had a classic prius owner show up yesterday with a check engine light and codes P3191 and P3101. she hadn't changed her oil in over 10k miles and it was just over 2 qts low.

he added oil and the codes went away. the owner didn't have time to have an oil change done, apparently.

just a heads up with all the oil-level debate/mayhem around here.

tochatihu · 05-14-2007, 09:06 AM

Very interesting...I would first wonder where the 2 quarts went! At least a few Prius change synthetic engine oil on 12 k intervals and oil level reductions have not been reported. I am certain that DH would not let it leave the bay with oil leaking from the pan or seals.

If the oil is blowing by the rings, would this eventually interfere with catalyst function (tho one might anticipate different DTCs from that).

Did he notice if the throttle butterfly was heavy with soot? I understand that in extreme cases this can lead to 3191.

My atttention is on matters other than oil level (or pressure) per se because the way for that to cause a no-start is not at all clear. As far as the car can tell, ultra-low oil (from the ECU's perspective) would seem to be like disconnecting the oil pressure sensor - does that cause P3191?

Also if by any chance this really old oil is still available, I would like to obtain a sample for chemical analysis. Too much to hope for, right?

galaxee · 05-14-2007, 10:44 AM

the customer made it clear she was to be in and out of the shop in short order. he didn't even have time to drain the old oil before she wanted it back, just top it off. the codes did go away after he topped off but he didn't have time to do any more thorough of an investigation.

he expects that the engine was burning oil but without time to actually look at the thing...

she did say she was at least 5k over the oil change interval, and who knows- she may have been changing at the recommended 7.5k interval, which would put more than 12.5k miles on the oil.

**TonyPSchaefer** · 05-14-2007, 01:41 PM

Just in/out. Don't investigate? No time?

Excuse me?

I hope those were two very expensive quarts of oil.

Mr.Vanvandenburg · 05-14-2007, 03:18 PM

There are people who do not ever change oil from new, never check it, think the red oil light MAY mean don't drive, and find it annoying to have the annoying oil added. I have known such people. My theory is their father's always nagged them to change the oil, and they are out to prove father wrong. These cars are later called "one owner" trade ins.

bmillerbiop · 05-14-2007, 04:13 PM

FYI - at about 100K miles, my 2004 Prius also started losing/using oil - about one quart between the 5K oil changes (which I did religiously). Disappointing and a bit odd, since the remaining oil continues to retain the golden, semi-translucent character. You'd think it would turn brown-black if it was burning oil. Could it be getting sucked up somewhere (PCV tube or something)?

daveleeprius · 05-14-2007, 04:18 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bmiller @ May 14 2007, 03:13 PM) [snapback]441874[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

FYI - at about 100K miles, my 2004 Prius also started losing/using oil - about one quart between the 5K oil changes (which I did religiously). Disappointing and a bit odd, since the remaining oil continues to retain the golden, semi-translucent character. You'd think it would turn brown-black if it was burning oil. Could it be getting sucked up somewhere (PCV tube or something)?
[/b]

Wow. Our 1991 Corolla has 115k and doesn't burn oil at all, no leaks either. Same with my old 1988 Civic that was rear-ended. Engines were as tight as a drum. Hope our 2007 Prius doesn't start using oil at 100k.

Dave

morpheusx · 05-15-2007, 06:14 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ May 14 2007, 04:18 PM) [snapback]441881[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Wow. Our 1991 Corolla has 115k and doesn't burn oil at all, no leaks either. Same with my old 1988 Civic that was rear-ended. Engines were as tight as a drum. Hope our 2007 Prius doesn't start using oil at 100k.

Dave
[/b]

All combustion engines burn a little oil, if you look in your prius manual you can find a detailed reason why.

galaxee · 05-17-2007, 07:55 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bmiller @ May 14 2007, 04:13 PM) [snapback]441874[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

FYI - at about 100K miles, my 2004 Prius also started losing/using oil - about one quart between the 5K oil changes (which I did religiously). Disappointing and a bit odd, since the remaining oil continues to retain the golden, semi-translucent character. You'd think it would turn brown-black if it was burning oil. Could it be getting sucked up somewhere (PCV tube or something)?
[/b]

well if the oil is still such a nice golden color, DH suspects it's leaking somewhere rather than burning. oil seals do wear- they are maintenance items.

05-14-2007, 09:06 AM	#2
tochatihu Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kunming Yunnan China Posts: 2,413 My Car: 2001 Prius Model: Package: Pioneer #1 Thanks: 1 Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts Friends: 14	Very interesting...I would first wonder where the 2 quarts went! At least a few Prius change synthetic engine oil on 12 k intervals and oil level reductions have not been reported. I am certain that DH would not let it leave the bay with oil leaking from the pan or seals. If the oil is blowing by the rings, would this eventually interfere with catalyst function (tho one might anticipate different DTCs from that). Did he notice if the throttle butterfly was heavy with soot? I understand that in extreme cases this can lead to 3191. My atttention is on matters other than oil level (or pressure) per se because the way for that to cause a no-start is not at all clear. As far as the car can tell, ultra-low oil (from the ECU's perspective) would seem to be like disconnecting the oil pressure sensor - does that cause P3191? Also if by any chance this really old oil is still available, I would like to obtain a sample for chemical analysis. Too much to hope for, right? __________________ DAS Tochatihu, the Hopi hummingbird kachina

05-14-2007, 10:44 AM	#3
galaxee resident lab rat Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: boilermaker territory Posts: 9,676 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: N/A Package: #5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 94 Times in 37 Posts Friends: 26	the customer made it clear she was to be in and out of the shop in short order. he didn't even have time to drain the old oil before she wanted it back, just top it off. the codes did go away after he topped off but he didn't have time to do any more thorough of an investigation. he expects that the engine was burning oil but without time to actually look at the thing... she did say she was at least 5k over the oil change interval, and who knows- she may have been changing at the recommended 7.5k interval, which would put more than 12.5k miles on the oil. __________________ black 2005 prius, a few mods that make me happy g: class of '09 in intense science DH: class of '09 in medical equipment hoping to discover the 'reward' part of the sacrifice-reward cycle soon!

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05-14-2007, 01:12 AM	#1
galaxee resident lab rat Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: boilermaker territory Posts: 9,676 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: N/A Package: #5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 94 Times in 37 Posts Friends: 26	DH had a classic prius owner show up yesterday with a check engine light and codes P3191 and P3101. she hadn't changed her oil in over 10k miles and it was just over 2 qts low. he added oil and the codes went away. the owner didn't have time to have an oil change done, apparently. just a heads up with all the oil-level debate/mayhem around here.

05-14-2007, 01:41 PM	#4
TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Far-North Chicagoland Posts: 10,512 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 39 Thanked 168 Times in 109 Posts Friends: 23	Just in/out. Don't investigate? No time? Excuse me? I hope those were two very expensive quarts of oil.

05-14-2007, 03:18 PM	#5
Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 149 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Friends: 0	There are people who do not ever change oil from new, never check it, think the red oil light MAY mean don't drive, and find it annoying to have the annoying oil added. I have known such people. My theory is their father's always nagged them to change the oil, and they are out to prove father wrong. These cars are later called "one owner" trade ins.

05-14-2007, 04:13 PM	#6
bmillerbiop Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	FYI - at about 100K miles, my 2004 Prius also started losing/using oil - about one quart between the 5K oil changes (which I did religiously). Disappointing and a bit odd, since the remaining oil continues to retain the golden, semi-translucent character. You'd think it would turn brown-black if it was burning oil. Could it be getting sucked up somewhere (PCV tube or something)?