Headlight problem

[adavidw]

I'm pretty upset with Toyota right now. My passenger side headlight started winking out about 10,000 miles ago. I finally got it to happen during the day so I could show the dealer, and they quoted about $250 per headlight to replace. I called the Customer Experience Center (800-331-4331) a few weeks ago and told them about it, then was called back a day or two later by a rep who said that Toyota would be able to help me and would take care of it, but that I would need to go back to the dealer and have it fixed and Toyota would reimburse me. I asked specifically about the possibility of it being something more than the capsule (like it being the ECU), and she said that the dealership would need to do a diagnostic to determine what parts would be at fault, but that Toyota would reimburse me that cost as well.

(Normally, if someone says "yeah, just go spend some money and I'll reimburse you later", I'd be pretty skeptical, and demand something in writing. In this case however, I had heard stories on this forum and elsewhere about Toyota making good, and thought there was no reason not to trust them. Turns out that was a mistake...)

A couple of weeks later, I took the car in to the dealer, and told them I needed the headlight fixed, but that they needed to do a diagnostic first to make sure it was just the capsule. They did the diagnostic, but waived their usual diagnostic fee, then replaced the capsule at a parts cost of ~$160 and labor of only $55, for around $217 including tax. Way better than some of the prices I've seen quoted here.

I faxed all of the documentation back to the number they gave me, and two days later I got a message on my phone saying they had reviewed the case and determined that they could assist me by paying the parts cost and leaving the $55 labor for me to pay. That's not what I felt like I had been told initially, so I called back to talk to the case manager. That's when things started getting really surreal.

First, I had to wait on hold 15 minutes for someone to answer the phone. When they finally answered, they offered to transfer me to the case manager, but I somehow got disconnected at the time of the transfer. So, I call back, wait another 15 minutes, and finally get to the case manager, over 30 minutes after I first started trying to call.

I started to tell the case manager that I felt like I had been told something differently at the start, and that's when I found out I wasn't even talking to the same person I had initially. Apparently, the first case manager I had talked to was someone filling in for my real case manager, and I was only just now talking to my real case manager for the first time.

I had a list of about 6 reasons why I thought Toyota should cover the full cost. I was fully prepared to have a calm reasonable conversation about each point and to chalk up the $55 to my stupidity for not insisting on something in writing if they didn't agree. However, a calm reasoned discussion wasn't even remotely possible. I started to try to explain each part of my position, but this person instead on cutting me off halfway through every sentence to say what the Toyota position was and why they weren't going to change. I did a fair bit of interrupting myself, but only because I thought I had been cut off and was trying to finish my point. I absolutely cannot stand when someone won't let me finish my sentence. To me, it's the worst kind of insult that you can give to someone you're talking to and shows that you honestly don't care at all about what they have to say.

I finally broke down and begged please, just let me finish my sentence because it's making me way more upset than I was when I placed the call. After that she did make a couple of attempts to ask if I was done before responding, and I was able to go through all of my points:

• I think Toyota told me something different when I first called, and based on what they said, I had the expectation that the repair would be covered.
• This was a really good deal at this dealer, and if I had gone to another dealer with a higher parts cost or been charged the diagnostic fee, Toyota would have been reimbursing a lot more than what they're offering here, so quibbling over the remaining $55 seems cheap.
• Even at $55, that's way more than I've ever had to pay to replace any other headlight in any other vehicle I've ever owned so it seems slightly unreasonable.
• The HID option was a very expensive option and is sold partially on the idea that the lights would last many times longer than a conventional headlight. If I knew beforehand that I would have to replace the headlights more often than a conventional headlight at a cost many times greater, I would have been a lot more reluctant to get this option. Based on how this option is sold and how the technology works on other vehicles, I would expect a life of much greater than 69,000 miles for the capsules.
• I paid a huge chunk of money to buy the Toyota Platinum Care Extended Warranty so that I would specifically not have any repair costs in the first 100,000 miles. The factory warranty covers replacement of the capsules in the first 36,000 miles, and the extended warranty is sold as covering everything the factory warranty does. Turns out the extended warranty specifically excludes "bulbs", and they use this exclusion to not cover the headlight capsule replacement. I can totally understand them not including bulbs, they same way I wouldn't expect them to cover brake pads or tires or other wear items. I would never expect the extended warranty to replace a burned out taillight, for example. However, we're not talking about a "bulb" in the regular sense here. We're talking about a capsule of glass filled with gas and vaporized metal and electrodes to energize the whole process. The cost alone makes it clear we're not talking about a regular bulb. Also, the fact that it can't be replaced without removing the bumper makes it clear that we're not talking about your garden variety taillight bulb here.
• From the reports here and with the NHTSA, it's apparent that there are a large number of similar failures indicating a model wide defect. It's clear that this is below Toyota's standards. It's clear that Toyota is aware of the problem. Therefore, Toyota should be the one who would want to make it right.

I got some good answers to some of these points as well as some silly answers. The extended warranty argument was countered by passing the buck and saying that they're a different division of the company, and she couldn't speak for them. That's understandable, but the car, the dealer, and the warranty all say Toyota, and when I have a problem involving all three, I still don't know who to call. If this corporate Customer Experience Center isn't it, then what is?

My expectation of the HID life and the value of purchasing the option isn't valid, because they don't specifically warranty an expectation. Fair enough. If it was just me, I would accept that. But, other cars don't have this problem. And, when it's happening to a lot of people and Toyota knows that but doesn't fix it, and it's a problem only the dealer can fix, it starts to look like Toyota cares more about padding the dealer service departments than it does in keeping the customer happy.

The cost options didn't sway the case manager at all, because she explained that the reason Toyota's asking me to pay the labor is not because Toyota can't afford the total cost but because they want me to share in the cost of the repair. Even if they did have to pay extra for the dianostic and pay $350 for the part somewhere else, they'd still have me share the cost of a repair that's half what it would cost elsewhere. It was explained that this was because it was so far out of warranty. I countered with the fact that as far as I'm concerned it's still in warranty, and I would expect to foot all of the cost if it was my fault or if it wasn't in warranty, but both of those arguments led back into the other arguments again, which kept going around in circles. This led directly into another round of cutting me off before I could say anything.

I tried to go back to my first point, which was that the first rep told me something different. I wanted to see if I could talk to first rep to figure out why they would have said something different. That's when the case manager accused me of changing my story.

She said that I never said the first rep said anything and that I was just assuming they would take care of it, and that I said I just had an expectation that they would take care of it. I said that I had said nothing of the sort; that I had said the first rep specifically said "We'll take of it" and that's why I would have had the expectation that they would, in fact, take care of it. I said the most likely situation is that the case manager didn't hear anything I even said about the first rep initially because she was too busy interrupting me. The case manager said we should "just be honest" and that she "didn't appreciate" what I was doing by changing my story. Basically, stopping just short of calling me a liar. It's weird, because she wasn't accusing me of lying about what the first rep said. That would have been normal because of course nothing the first rep said was documented. No, this crazy person was accusing me of lying about what I previously had said the first rep said, like she was so proud that she was able to take down my whole argument by catching me in a lie or something.

I told her how upset this was making me, and that it's not helping anything when a customer calls in already upset about one problem and then doing something to make them upset about something else. She said "I'm sorry you're having personal problems". That just floored me. "What do you mean, personal problems?", I stammered. She said, "You just said you were already upset about something else." I told her, yes, I was upset about having to pay to fix my car. That was the something else, and now, I'm more upset about the way this conversation went and that this person is completely incapable of communicating with someone else in a respectful way.

So, lessons to be learned here: First, don't believe anything anybody at Toyota tells you until you get it in writing. I suspended my normal skepticism about such things becuase the first rep was so accommodating, and I was so trusting of Toyota. Second, while some have been getting satisfaction by going through the Customer Experience Center, whether you're satisifed with your experience clearly depends on who your case manager is. Lesson for Toyota: There's a way to say no and yet still be respectful toward your customers, avoiding pissing them off even further.

As for me, I started the call bummed that I was going to be stuck with $55, but willing to accept it if necessary. I ended the call about 100 times more upset than I was at the start. I hope the check for reimbursement for the part still comes, because at this point I'm skeptical of whether or not that's even going to happen and whether this person just put the brakes on that.

[Dixiechick]

2007 Prius here. My local dealer is going to replace the headlights as a "one time goodwill gesture." However, there is moisture in my driver-side headlight and that needs to be replace first. They say the seal broke?

Anyway, dealer is quoting $329 for the part. No labor as it would be included in the light replacement. This seems crazy. I looked online and the part is around $90. What am I missing?

Thanks

[qbee42]

For the OP: please fill out your profile so readers will know what type of car you are driving.

Tom

[Dixiechick]

Originally Posted by qbee42

For the OP: please fill out your profile so readers will know what type of car you are driving.

Tom

Which OP are you referring to? The one from 2+ years ago?

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by Dixiechick

Which OP are you referring to? The one from 2+ years ago?

Whoops, sorry.

I meant the poster at the top of this page: adavidw.

Tom

[goodwinbc]

I too have been experiencing the "headlight problem" first with the drivers side light now both sides...not always at the same time....if turned off then back on the light works for a while (usually dimmer).
dealers in this area have not been very helpful.....got price this weekend of $264 to replace the bulb.....but mostly get blank stares when ask questions about issue...and they say just the bulb needs replacing..not very helpful or giving much confidence they know what they are doing actually.
Called Toyota received case number...2nd call today and manager offered as one time show of good faith to pay half the cost of the bulb....nothing about what they would do for 2nd light as the dealer "diagnosis" was only for the one that was out at the time...or what they would do if that did not cure the problem......I did not accept or reject the offer yet...I am going to ask for it in writing......i am very disappointed in Toyota on this issue (love my 07 touring, but wish I had not gotten the HID lights which I thought would be a good thing), was thinking of also getting a 2010 but holding off now. this chat helps see what others are experencing ...thanks

[sardis]

Update on my 2007 Prius headlights.
I am probably just lucky! Great experience with Toyota. Five days after I emailed to them I received a responce also by email and a case number. Next day (yesterday) they called me and told me to go to my dealer get diagnostic test and replace the headlights. They even gave me a name of the person I should talk to because they emailed him all my information. So today i got my both lights replaced! I do not even know the price. It is all between my dealer and Toyota.
I am so happy I found this forum. The best advice was not to go to the dealer but contact Toyota derectly.
The new headlights are from different vendor and improved. Supposed to last much longer. Thank you guys and good luck to all of you.
Tatyana

[txav8r]

Add me to the "saga of the HID". I called the dealer, heard the $150 for the bulb and another $250+ in labor...immediately came to my computer, clicked into priuschat and wa la! A thread with 636 posts on the subject! The dealer told me 2.5 hours of labor to do this job...I have spent 2.5 hours reading the thread and ok, just like a dull book...I jumped to the end page after reading the first 25 pages of posts. Then I read back from there a ways.

Funny, it looks like Toyota got on board without admitting any responsibility. Then somewhere in the middle, either select case managers or maybe as a directive, they got hard nosed and started requiring some "shared pain" from the owner as far as monetary responsibility. Funny, My salesman told me the HID's were a lifetime bulb when I bought the car. It is beyond obvious that Toyota thought the same thing by burying the bulbs without being able to change them easily...or...they did it deliberately to give dealers and Toyota an inflated revenue stream. I think the former is probably where the truth lies. Toward the end of this thread, it seems that for the most part, they are picking up the tab for this. We will see. If they don't want to, then I will remember that a buy a Volt to replace this car and bad mouth Toyota and their products. However, I hope that they continue to be an industry leader and get behind issues such as this without alienating their devoted customer base.

I have had very good service out of my dealer and expect it to continue. I was surprised at how "they new nothing of a trend with HID failures" until I educated myself and now they give me the 800# and tell me they will inform Toyota of the number of times the lights were reported to have failed but they couldn't duplicate, so they were never fixed in warranty. They admitted many failures through their dealership after I carried in this thread and the 160+ pages reported to the National agency into the dealer on a flash drive. Now, well out of warranty, we will see.

I find the bulbs from various vendors on ebay from $48 to $57 per pair shipped. However, I suspect that some of the ballasts are bad as well. There are ballasts available but don't know if they are as easily changed.

I will keep you posted as to my success with Toyota and the conclusion of my own situation regarding the headlights.

[farrellcsun]

Yep, I have the infamous HID headlight issue as well. I currently have approx 36,800 miles on my 07 Prius (pacakge 6). I first noticed the driver's side headlight go out on Nov. 7 @ 36,430 miles.

Turning the lights on/off made it work again. Then last night it happened for the 2nd time.

I'm keeping tabs on how many times this happens until my next 40k service and will bring it up then. If it starts happening more frequently, I'll take it in sooner and let you all know what they say.

My dealer is Keyes Toyota in Van Nuys, CA.

[isp2952]

Well her I am again. Sitting at the dealership waiting for someone to take the intiative and decide what's the right thing to do. After my Post #613 I called Toyota. I was told they would reimburse me for my initial headlight replacement if I sent them a bill. I should also take the car back to the dealer if I had any additional problems. Well I have. This time the passenger side light went out and then both and then back on and so on and so on a couple of times. Of course I make an appointment and they are all back on. This makes it a problem for them I guess. Because the service tech just told me that they have been told by Toyota not to change the ECU and to try and diagnose the problem. So I'm sitting here while they are waiting for the lights to go out. That could be a long wait. They also said to change both bulbs. I told the tech that was stupid because they just changed the driver's side a month ago. He agreed but his hands are tied according to him.
After I leave here I will be getting on the phone and calling Toyota and voice my displeasure. I'm sure they will give me the usual song and dance and file 13 my complaint. I let the NHTSA and ABC news know what was going on. So far no response from either one. Not surprising either! It won't get anybody's attention until one of us drives down the road and out lights go out and we hit a deer or something and get killed. Then somebody will say, "There must be a problem with the Prius headlights. We need to check this out."