Catalytic Converter Replacement

[bluejayrover]

'01 Prius. Well maintained. 132,000 on the clock. Check engine light came on and dealer said it was for the catalytic converter needing to be replaced for $2,100.00 !! Midas said $1,800.00. Is there a cheaper option even if the car is a little "less green"? I know it will pass the smog check even with a straight pipe! Has anyone put on a universal replacement??

Thanks!

Jay

[hill]

[quote=bluejayrover @ Sep 8 2007, 04:03 PM) [snapback]509173[/snapback]</div>

'01 Prius. Well maintained. 132,000 on the clock. Check engine light came on and dealer said it was for the catalytic converter needing to be replaced for $2,100.00 !! Midas said $1,800.00. Is there a cheaper option even if the car is a little "less green"? I know it will pass the smog check even with a straight pipe! Has anyone put on a universal replacement??

Thanks!

Jay
[/b]

Sorry to hear the bad news,
From the death of my Daughter's Chevy Caviler Cat Converter] 82K miles, I learned the hard way, more than I ever wanted to know on the topic:
1) What I learned applies to CA, and your avatar shows the Bay area so this is applicable
2) Even older cars in CA with only 12K or 36K factory warranties, still have an 80K warranty on the Cat Converter.
3) Hybrid systems in CA (and a few other states) are warranted longer than most states, and as part of the broader topic of "emissions controls" - that system is warranted to 150K. But I don't know if they include the Cat Converter with the broader topic of the hybrid / emissions system. I'd find out if it applies. Even if it does apply, if the car was originally bought out of state, all bets are off. Other state's cut off at 100K.
4) There are modular sensors in front of, and behind the Cat Converter that die, and more than one dealer has wrongly diagnosed the Converter as being dead, when sometimes it's just the front sensor (lots of heat there)

With that in mind, and at a cost of maybe $80 or so, it may be worth changing that out (when pulled, they look crispy some times), and seeing if the emission system can then be reset. For some cars, that's as simple as pulling the battery terminal off. Others need the scan tool.

Lastly, since hybrids are exempt from smog system inspections every 2 years in CA ... at least for now, you're not going to have to worry about getting your registration when it comes up for renewal. Good luck!

[FireEngineer]

It may not be the converter that needs replacing. Your generation Prius had a HC (hydrocarbon) adsorber with a valve that gets corroded. However, if the valve can't be freed-up you will need to replace the entire assembly.

Wayne

[galaxee]

the pipe is about $1500, maybe $1800. but if you get charged more than an hour and a half labor to install, you're getting screwed.

[jk450]

Let's take a step back, and see if we can supply this person with more accurate information...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Sep 8 2007, 05:16 PM) [snapback]509188[/snapback]</div>

1) What I learned applies to CA, and your avatar shows the Bay area so this is applicable...

[/b]

Not really. See below.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Sep 8 2007, 05:16 PM) [snapback]509188[/snapback]</div>

2) Even older cars in CA with only 12K or 36K factory warranties, still have an 80K warranty on the Cat Converter.

[/b]

True, but that's a federal warranty. It applies regardless of state. California's is 7/70. The car has 132K.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Sep 8 2007, 05:16 PM) [snapback]509188[/snapback]</div>

3) Hybrid systems in CA (and a few other states) are warranted longer than most states, and as part of the broader topic of "emissions controls" - that system is warranted to 150K.

[/b]

No. Not for this vehicle. The AT-PZEV 15 year/150K warranty applies to AT-PZEV vehicles only. The Gen II Prius is one of them. A 2001 Prius is not.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Sep 8 2007, 05:16 PM) [snapback]509188[/snapback]</div>

4) There are modular sensors in front of, and behind the Cat Converter that die, and more than one dealer has wrongly diagnosed the Converter as being dead, when sometimes it's just the front sensor (lots of heat there)

[/b]

I'll guess that "modular sensors" refers to the A/F sensor in front of the cat and/or the 02 sensor behind it. It's true that a cat or sensor failure is often misdiagnosed, especially if it has a P0420 code.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Sep 8 2007, 05:16 PM) [snapback]509188[/snapback]</div>

With that in mind, and at a cost of maybe $80 or so, it may be worth changing that out (when pulled, they look crispy some times), and seeing if the emission system can then be reset. For some cars, that's as simple as pulling the battery terminal off. Others need the scan tool.

[/b]

No. More like $150 to $250, depending on location, if you want the original Denso sensors (and you do). Let's not advocate throwing parts at a car. I'll vote for diagnosis instead.

If the original poster can supply codes, that may be helpful.

[tochatihu]

Early on, sticky HCAC valves were somewhat common in classic Prius (At least in winter road salt areas). Indeed the only exhaust system TSBs relate to this. A very appropriate early step would be to verify function of the HCAC valve.

[attachmentid=11296]

[attachmentid=11297]

Under the above TSBs, paid coverage would be limited to 80k miles per federal, or by negotiation with Toyota.

Generic DTCs related to the O2 sensors would be in the P0130 to P0141 range, approximately.

Jay, I would dissuade you from even considering a straight pipe exhaust modification. Prius engine gets some critical operational info from the exhaust system sensors. Probably you were just kidding

[gippah]

I'm having a similar problem on my 2001 Prius. The engine light came on, so I took it in and they said it was the catalytic converter and said it would cost me $1700 + two gaskets + 2.5 hours of labor to total $2186.

The diagnostic code they gave was the typical P0420.

However, I question that the Toyota techs actually did anything except hook it up to the computer and get the code. They did not mention anything about checking any of the O2 sensors or checking anything.

If it turns out it is the catalytic converter, what would the disadvantage be to buying a $100 generic one and sticking it on the car? $2100 is a bit of an obnoxious price.

[joetho]

Hello,

My '02 Prius has the 420 (my, that sounds suspicious!). 280k miles, and the old girl DOES burn a little oil, so I am thinking the catconv may in fact have a little congestion.

Some things I have tried, or plan to:

-crawling underneath and checking the hcac valve. That one was kind of grey-area- I didn't know what to check for other than absolute frozen status. I was reluctant to force the thing back and forth, so I just jiggled it and it seemed free.

-New spark plugs. That actually helped for a while, believe it or not. I am guessing that the improved combustion raised overall efficiency juuuuust enough to meet the onboard computer's standards? It didn't last, and the CE light came back on after a while. But that indicated proper operation of the hcac valve and the fore and aft sensors, right?

-sensors. The good ones are not super cheap, and they come with the front-pipe assembly if I end up buying one of those expensive bastards after all. I am not one to throw parts at a problem, unless they are cheap ones. These sensors are not real easy to swap out, either. Am I thinking straight here?

-reading and clearing that CE light every now and then, just to make sure the catconv is the only issue. Things wear out after a quarter million miles!

[Garik]

I have a 2004 Prius and P0420 coming up from time to time. I'm not sure if it's o2 sensor or catalytic converter. I live in New York state and I'm wondering if it might be covered by 150,000 mile warranty. Can anyone explain? I found this:
" Coverage in California Emission Warranty States is up to 10-Years / 150,000-Miles. States include: California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania and Vermont."

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by Garik

I have a 2004 Prius and P0420 coming up from time to time. I'm not sure if it's o2 sensor or catalytic converter. I live in New York state and I'm wondering if it might be covered by 150,000 mile warranty. Can anyone explain? I found this:
" Coverage in California Emission Warranty States is up to 10-Years / 150,000-Miles. States include: California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania and Vermont."

NY is a CARB emissions state, so yes, assuming your car was bought, registered and operated in NY, you'd have the same emissions warranties as CA.

You should notice that in your warranty booklet manual, the cat is covered for 15 years/150K miles in CARB states.