Bad Oil Change Experience

[bruceha_2000]

Here is the litany of errors I came across after my last oil change at the local Toyota dealer.

1. 45K service done in July. Including oil change, tire rotation, clean and lube brakes, alignment (they seem to think this should be done twice a year even though it is not specified and my car showed no signs of alignment problems) They also charge for fluid level and tire pressure checks. I KNOW they don't do the tire pressure since they are ALWAYS the reverse of what I had when I went in (I use 42 front / 40 rear)
2. As the dealer over filled by 4 oz at 5K and 8 oz at 10K, at the 15K change I started giving them either 3.5 or 4 quarts of Mobil 1 (depending on if I had a partial bottle).
3. Sometimes they remembered to give be back an empty if I gave them 3.5, sometimes not.
4. At the 45K I gave them 4 quarts, asked for 1/2 quart back. Since the 15K change this 3.5 quart fill yielded oil just below the full mark, adding 2 more oz will hit it. The "3.9 quart" fill is about 10 oz too much in my '04 and my wife's '06. Neither has a bashed in oil pan so either they don't drain it well or 3.9 IS too much.
5. I realized the next morning that I did not receive my .5 quart back at the 45K. I was going to call the service rep to hold it for me but they weren't open yet. I did a tire pressure and oil level check (expecting to add 2 oz to hit the top mark) since I had a 400 mile trip to MA that day. I found my extra oil, in my engine. Royally pissed, I called the service rep (who had also CHARGED me for 5 quarts of oil even though I brought my own). She told me the tech said it was OK to drive it 400 miles with 14 oz over. I said Bu115h1t and 'stole' my wife's car for the trip. I pulled out the dipstick pump and removed 14 oz of oil the next day.
6. The service rep was supposed to credit me the cost of the oil, it never showed up on the CC statement.
7. Last Friday, I went to the dealer, bought 2 oil filters (they include the crush gaskets free even though they charge $1 for them when THEY do the service). Then I asked for the service manager, told him my tale of woe and explained why I would not be bringing either car there for service again. Of course he was apologetic and said he would take care of the oil refund.
8. I had picked up 2 driver's side, one passenger and one rear wiper "inserts" Friday, they ordered the other 2 since they weren't in stock. OK, so I start putting the rubber in. The passenger side doesn't fit on my car, too narrow, so I put it on my wife's car, thinking they had changed the arm between '04 and '06.
9. Sat morning, armed with my own oil and my Toyota filter, I started to do the tire rotation and oil change. Or not.
10. I started with the right front tire. The lug nuts were on so tight I had to stand on the tire iron and bounce to crack them off. I weigh 185 pounds. Unfortunately, the locking lug nut cracked making it impossible for me to get the thing off. Damn glad I didn't have a flat on the interstate at night!! I checked all the other nuts with my torque wrench. Front left were ALL fine, rears were well beyond 80 ft lbs, I didn't try to take them off. So I give up on the tire rotation and head under the car to change the oil. Or not.
11. Oil filter loosened just fine (I only made sure it would loosen but did NOT remove it just yet, good plan!!) I used an AmPro 65mm 14 flute 1 step filter remover (T70413) that I bought for $5 at Advanced Auto. It fits PERFECTLY and is metal unlike the Performance Tool #5 plastic POS I got at Bond Auto Parts which did NOT work. Unfortunately the oil drain plug would not break loose and not wanting to damage the pan or plug, etc, I gave up on this as well after tightening the filter back up.
12. I called the service manager Monday. Of course the lug nuts couldn't be too tight, they set them at 90 ft lbs with a torque stick (even though the Owner's manual specs 76 ft lbs) and the oil drain plugs are "three fingers on the wrench" tight. Not sure how that is suppose to relate to the spec of 28 ft lbs.
13. I go in Tuesday morning, they crack off all the lug nuts and torque them to 80 ft lbs. throw away the locking lug nuts (which came on the car but I didn't want anyway) and put 4 regular nuts on.
14. Today I went to pick up the wiper "inserts" and found that they were both "thin" just like the ones I got last week. The parts guy (who was very good by the way) came out to the car and determined I did not have the original metal 'blade' or arm or whatever they call it. Given no one but that dealer had ever done any service on the the car, I found that hard to believe. Come to find out, after he hunted through the computer, that it had been changed in Feb when I got new wipers. Apparently one has to ask for INSERTS not 'blades' or they throw away the perfectly good metal part with all the toggling arms and replace them with cheaper 'non warranty' versions that use different 'inserts'. How many people are being charged for replacement metal parts they don't need because they used the wrong term???? So now I have to get an 'insert' off the rack for my passenger side instead of the regular one. He nicely gets one, rips the number off the package so I can keep it and puts the old and new inserts on the counter. Then he pulled out a razor blade. "What is that for?" I ask. "You need to cut them down to the proper length". At this point I truely lost it, used a few bad words (that did not start with 'F') and asked for the service manager. He couldn't be found so the parts guy took me back to the counter, said he would order me a 'warranty' blade at no cost and call me on Tuesday to pick it up.
15. OK, so I get home, let the car cool down while I rotate the the tires. The lug nuts came off without me having to stand on the wrench. Oil filter and drain plug come off just fine. The ONLY positive thing about this 1 week delay is that the Fumoto drain valve I ordered last week came in on Wednesday so I got to put it on this time instead of waiting until the next oil change. All well and good, everything done and cleaned up, no leaks when I start the engine.
16. In the mail today was my oil refund ($30 check, not the $6 I requested and expected) AND a $30 parts/service coupon. Trying to make nice, can't fault them for that. Not much else they could do after the fact.

EXCEPT: What happens if there is NO crush gasket on the oil drain plug? I had pulled the plug out of the hole, it had not dropped in the oil pan, and cleaned it really well. Nope not there. I cleaned the edge of the oil pan really well. Not there. Also not in the screen of the oil drain pan and too big to drop through it. Would this account for the plug being SO tight when I tried to take it out last Sat? Did it seize because there was no gasket? Am I just really lucky that the oil didn't leak out the last 2 months / 5K miles?

Are we SURE quicky oil change places aren't as "good" as the dealer???? When we bought my wife's '06, the sales lady made sure to tell us we should bring it there for oil changes "because it is a Prius". Seems to me we should take it anywhere BUT there, "because it is a Prius".

[Blegate]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bruceha_2000 @ Oct 5 2007, 10:15 PM) [snapback]522066[/snapback]</div>

Here is the litany of errors I came across after my last oil change at the local Toyota dealer.

1. 45K service done in July. Including oil change, tire rotation, clean and lube brakes, alignment (they seem to think this should be done twice a year even though it is not specified and my car showed no signs of alignment problems) They also charge for fluid level and tire pressure checks. I KNOW they don't do the tire pressure since they are ALWAYS the reverse of what I had when I went in (I use 42 front / 40 rear)
2. As the dealer over filled by 4 oz at 5K and 8 oz at 10K, at the 15K change I started giving them either 3.5 or 4 quarts of Mobil 1 (depending on if I had a partial bottle).
3. Sometimes they remembered to give be back an empty if I gave them 3.5, sometimes not.
4. At the 45K I gave them 4 quarts, asked for 1/2 quart back. Since the 15K change this 3.5 quart fill yielded oil just below the full mark, adding 2 more oz will hit it. The "3.9 quart" fill is about 10 oz too much in my '04 and my wife's '06. Neither has a bashed in oil pan so either they don't drain it well or 3.9 IS too much.
5. I realized the next morning that I did not receive my .5 quart back at the 45K. I was going to call the service rep to hold it for me but they weren't open yet. I did a tire pressure and oil level check (expecting to add 2 oz to hit the top mark) since I had a 400 mile trip to MA that day. I found my extra oil, in my engine. Royally pissed, I called the service rep (who had also CHARGED me for 5 quarts of oil even though I brought my own). She told me the tech said it was OK to drive it 400 miles with 14 oz over. I said Bu115h1t and 'stole' my wife's car for the trip. I pulled out the dipstick pump and removed 14 oz of oil the next day.
6. The service rep was supposed to credit me the cost of the oil, it never showed up on the CC statement.
7. Last Friday, I went to the dealer, bought 2 oil filters (they include the crush gaskets free even though they charge $1 for them when THEY do the service). Then I asked for the service manager, told him my tale of woe and explained why I would not be bringing either car there for service again. Of course he was apologetic and said he would take care of the oil refund.
8. I had picked up 2 driver's side, one passenger and one rear wiper "inserts" Friday, they ordered the other 2 since they weren't in stock. OK, so I start putting the rubber in. The passenger side doesn't fit on my car, too narrow, so I put it on my wife's car, thinking they had changed the arm between '04 and '06.
9. Sat morning, armed with my own oil and my Toyota filter, I started to do the tire rotation and oil change. Or not.
10. I started with the right front tire. The lug nuts were on so tight I had to stand on the tire iron and bounce to crack them off. I weigh 185 pounds. Unfortunately, the locking lug nut cracked making it impossible for me to get the thing off. Damn glad I didn't have a flat on the interstate at night!! I checked all the other nuts with my torque wrench. Front left were ALL fine, rears were well beyond 80 ft lbs, I didn't try to take them off. So I give up on the tire rotation and head under the car to change the oil. Or not.
11. Oil filter loosened just fine (I only made sure it would loosen but did NOT remove it just yet, good plan!!) I used an AmPro 65mm 14 flute 1 step filter remover (T70413) that I bought for $5 at Advanced Auto. It fits PERFECTLY and is metal unlike the Performance Tool #5 plastic POS I got at Bond Auto Parts which did NOT work. Unfortunately the oil drain plug would not break loose and not wanting to damage the pan or plug, etc, I gave up on this as well after tightening the filter back up.
12. I called the service manager Monday. Of course the lug nuts couldn't be too tight, they set them at 90 ft lbs with a torque stick (even though the Owner's manual specs 76 ft lbs) and the oil drain plugs are "three fingers on the wrench" tight. Not sure how that is suppose to relate to the spec of 28 ft lbs.
13. I go in Tuesday morning, they crack off all the lug nuts and torque them to 80 ft lbs. throw away the locking lug nuts (which came on the car but I didn't want anyway) and put 4 regular nuts on.
14. Today I went to pick up the wiper "inserts" and found that they were both "thin" just like the ones I got last week. The parts guy (who was very good by the way) came out to the car and determined I did not have the original metal 'blade' or arm or whatever they call it. Given no one but that dealer had ever done any service on the the car, I found that hard to believe. Come to find out, after he hunted through the computer, that it had been changed in Feb when I got new wipers. Apparently one has to ask for INSERTS not 'blades' or they throw away the perfectly good metal part with all the toggling arms and replace them with cheaper 'non warranty' versions that use different 'inserts'. How many people are being charged for replacement metal parts they don't need because they used the wrong term???? So now I have to get an 'insert' off the rack for my passenger side instead of the regular one. He nicely gets one, rips the number off the package so I can keep it and puts the old and new inserts on the counter. Then he pulled out a razor blade. "What is that for?" I ask. "You need to cut them down to the proper length". At this point I truely lost it, used a few bad words (that did not start with 'F') and asked for the service manager. He couldn't be found so the parts guy took me back to the counter, said he would order me a 'warranty' blade at no cost and call me on Tuesday to pick it up.
15. OK, so I get home, let the car cool down while I rotate the the tires. The lug nuts came off without me having to stand on the wrench. Oil filter and drain plug come off just fine. The ONLY positive thing about this 1 week delay is that the Fumoto drain valve I ordered last week came in on Wednesday so I got to put it on this time instead of waiting until the next oil change. All well and good, everything done and cleaned up, no leaks when I start the engine.
16. In the mail today was my oil refund ($30 check, not the $6 I requested and expected) AND a $30 parts/service coupon. Trying to make nice, can't fault them for that. Not much else they could do after the fact.

EXCEPT: What happens if there is NO crush gasket on the oil drain plug? I had pulled the plug out of the hole, it had not dropped in the oil pan, and cleaned it really well. Nope not there. I cleaned the edge of the oil pan really well. Not there. Also not in the screen of the oil drain pan and too big to drop through it. Would this account for the plug being SO tight when I tried to take it out last Sat? Did it seize because there was no gasket? Am I just really lucky that the oil didn't leak out the last 2 months / 5K miles?

Are we SURE quicky oil change places aren't as "good" as the dealer???? When we bought my wife's '06, the sales lady made sure to tell us we should bring it there for oil changes "because it is a Prius". Seems to me we should take it anywhere BUT there, "because it is a Prius".
[/b]

Wow 45K horror maintenance nightmare....
Re: the oil drain gasket. You are fine and also very lucky no oil leaked out. The mechanic probably over tighten the nut because he didn't have a gasket I suppose. It's not his car so he probably didn't care. In the future (if you are able) chain the oil yourself then you'll know the job is done right. I admit I always don't look forward to the job but when you get going it goes pretty quick + easy. Keep receipts with dates and mileage on them. Buy filter + oil at the same time. I use 100% Synthetic so it still ends up costing me about $22.

Re: Quicky oil places- Boy I have a hard time trusting those folks. They seem to rotate through staff too much. Also they want to sell things you don't need. One time this guy told me the filter in my camry - which was one week old- needed replacement. Perhaps check with a local Prius group and get a recommendation for an mechanic to change your oil?????

brian

[galaxee]

bruceha- you hit the nail on the head. this was not the prius tech, likely he never knew your car was at the dealership. sad fact is, the folks who change oil and rotate tires are the folks who make $8/hour if they're lucky.

not that the diagnostic guys do much better. the money's in the dealer's "recommended" packages. that's what paid the bills for us. weeks where he was assigned a bad di-ag job were tough weeks to get through.

at any rate, he's done with the whole business, sadly

[bruceha_2000]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Oct 6 2007, 11:57 PM) [snapback]522351[/snapback]</div>

bruceha- you hit the nail on the head. this was not the prius tech, likely he never knew your car was at the dealership. sad fact is, the folks who change oil and rotate tires are the folks who make $8/hour if they're lucky.

not that the diagnostic guys do much better. the money's in the dealer's "recommended" packages. that's what paid the bills for us. weeks where he was assigned a bad di-ag job were tough weeks to get through.

at any rate, he's done with the whole business, sadly
[/b]

It is a lovely racket. They are charging $80/hr and can't even properly train the $8/hr guys. This one had to be a newbie. When I found out they were going to charge me $18 to install the cabin air filter I told them not to do it. When I paid for the service, I was told they did it anyway without charge because they were training this person. I can understand showing them how and were the air filters go on all the different vehicles, but he should already know how to drain oil and rotate tires. It isn't different on a Prius. Makes me wonder what he may or may not have screwed up with the brake check/lube and alignment since he screwed up everything else EXCEPT putting in the cabin air filter. Along with all my other complaints to the service manager, I mentioned that charging $18 for a 1 minute (2 if you are slow) job was a rip off... He took offense and gave me some BS about a standard time charge for cabin air filters, some vehicles take longer than others. SO WHAT, mine takes 2 minutes, I should not be charged for 15 minutes.

[bruceha_2000]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusBrian @ Oct 6 2007, 12:11 AM) [snapback]522077[/snapback]</div>

In the future (if you are able) change the oil yourself then you'll know the job is done right. I admit I always don't look forward to the job but when you get going it goes pretty quick + easy. Keep receipts with dates and mileage on them. Buy filter + oil at the same time. I use 100% Synthetic so it still ends up costing me about $22.

brian
[/b]

As noted in the overly long post, I am now changing my own oil. I stopped back around '88 or '89 when *I* screwed up and didn't notice that the gasket had not come off with the old filter. Made many hundred of miles before the double gasket let loose. No damage, I stopped immediately when the oil light came on and had it towed to a garage where they found my error. At that point, I decided maybe I should leave it to the 'pros'. Well, not any more.

I put a Fumoto drain valve on my car this time (with the safety clip just to be sure). It will be a breeze the next time (which is good, because it gets REALLY cold here and there is too much junk in the garage to fit a car in). Wife's '06 will hit 15,000 miles within a week or two. I'll be changing her oil this weekend and yes, I have a Fumoto for her Prius too. Probably not the sort of present a girl gets excited about

[jayman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bruceha_2000 @ Oct 5 2007, 10:15 PM) [snapback]522066[/snapback]</div>

Here is the litany of errors I came across after my last oil change at the local Toyota dealer.[/b]

Geez. I would have ripped everybody a new one over that fiasco

There is nothing to a Prius oil change. I never jack mine up, though I do "cheat" by driving it up onto a car ramp I made from old railway ties. I like to give the entire undercarriage a once-over, including hosing off dirt/mud and spraying Fluid Film on the metal parts to prevent rusting.

I think it's important to give the undercarriage a frequent once-over. Say you tear a CV boot, you catch it early - tell tale grease spatter - and you just have to clean the joint and put a new boot on. If you depend on a 6 month service interval, the CV joint is trashed and it's cheaper to put a rebuilt shaft in.

Unless a person is truly obese, about the only challenge is finding an oil drain pan shallow enough to fit. I use a Tupperware container that is intended for buffet duty. You're draining less than 4 litres. The oil filter is sort of touchy-feely underneath, but with practise it's easy enough to get off

The FJ is even easier to change oil, as the oil filter is mounted to the top of the motor. Never more than a 10 minute job.

[efusco]

Creating new thread for misplaced posts at OP's request.

[Rest]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bruceha_2000 @ Oct 5 2007, 08:15 PM) [snapback]522066[/snapback]</div>

Are we SURE quicky oil change places aren't as "good" as the dealer???? When we bought my wife's '06, the sales lady made sure to tell us we should bring it there for oil changes "because it is a Prius". Seems to me we should take it anywhere BUT there, "because it is a Prius".
[/b]

Why not change your own oil? Doing it yourself will save you time and money, plus allows you to get to know your vehicle better. Just keep a record for warranty purposes.

Rhino Ramps work great and are not bulky.