Inspection (emissions) failed. What to do?

[Vlad]

Hi,

I own a 2002 Prius. About 63K miles. I took it to my local Toyota dealership for an inspection and the car failed inspection! Something to do with emissions. No check engine light was on and the car has been driving fine. No funny smells or bad exhaust.

The service manager says that their machine can't specifically pinpoint what the problem is. Could be one of a couple dozen things he says. He needs to use a specific Toyota diagnostics machine, and that will cost me $130 just for the diagnosis. Of course I'm not sure about the repair costs.

I am surprised that their basic inspection can't tell me what exactly is wrong with the emissions, and I have to pay $130 more to get the answer. Does this sound strange? Should I take it to another local repair place that does inspections, or continue on with the dealership? I've never had any issues with the dealership in the past. I do use another local repair place (VIP), primarily for oil changes and tires, but they don't do inspections.

Thanks, Vlad

[FBear]

When they did the inspection the dealership had to hook the car up using the OBD II system. This test should have given them the exact reason for the failure to meet emission requirement. It should have also given them a printout showing what part of the emissions test you failed. Ask for your copy.

Then take it some place either other dealership or if it will require a simple adjustment take to your local trusted mechanic.

[Ian MacDonald]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FBear @ Nov 13 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]538982[/snapback]</div>

When they did the inspection the dealership had to hook the car up using the OBD II system. This test should have given them the exact reason for the failure to meet emission requirement. It should have also given them a printout showing what part of the emissions test you failed. Ask for your copy.

Then take it some place either other dealership or if it will require a simple adjustment take to your local trusted mechanic.
[/b]

Just curious, but shouldn't the emission control components still be under warranty if the car is only 5 years old?

Regards,

-- Ian

[miscrms]

Sounds kind of fishy on a number of levels.....

1. If the car is not meeting emissions, its supposed to throw a CEL (check engine light). That is the lights main reason for being, it says "I'm not meeting emissions" or more often "I have a bad sensor so I can't tell if I'm meeting emissions".

2. If the car isn't throwing a CEL, it shouldn't know there is an emissions problem, and therefore shouldn't report a problem when they hook it up for the inspection. Generally most states don't actually test emissions any more, you just hook up the computer which asks the car if its meeting emissions. All cars were required to have this standard OBDII interface starting in 1996.

3. If the car is throwing a CEL, but lets say the the bulb is out or something so you can't see it, there would be a code associated with the light that tells them in general terms why it thinks there is a problem. You might need a more detailed scan of the Toyota specific codes to correct the problem, but it should at least tell you in what way it is failing.

4. I would think a Toyota dealer would be scanning a Toyota on a Toyota scanner to begin with? Maybe the state has a standardized inspection system they are using instead? Still seems to me like $130 is pretty steep just to plug it in and get a code.

5. I believe the warranty period for emissions related equipment is 8yr/80,000mi per federal EPA rules. Seems like the dealer would need to show that the emissions failure is not related to part of the warrantied emissions system before talking about charging you any money.

Am I off base on any of these? I would probably take it to another dealer if it were me. If thats not an option I would specifically ask them why this is not covered under you EPA emissions system warranty.

Rob

[Sufferin' Prius Envy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ian MacDonald @ Nov 13 2007, 01:14 PM) [snapback]539059[/snapback]</div>

Just curious, but shouldn't the emission control components still be under warranty if the car is only 5 years old?[/b]

At this point, since he doesn't have his location listed in his profile, we can only wait or guess.

This is a good example of why everyone should put their location in their profile.
As far as we know, the OP lives in Ethiopia, has no warranty, emissions aren't a governmental concern, and has half a dealership to work with ("a specific Toyota diagnostics machine" being a hint of what he is doing).

[F8L]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Nov 13 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]539071[/snapback]</div>

At this point, since he doesn't have his location listed in his profile, we can only wait or guess.

This is a good example of why everyone should put their location in their profile.
As far as we know, the OP lives in Ethiopia, has no warranty, emissions aren't a governmental concern, and has half a dealership to work with ("a specific Toyota diagnostics machine" being a hint of what he is doing).
[/b]

LMAO!

It would be helpful to know if it was the sniffer test or the diagnostic test that failed.

[hobbit]

Few cars do gas-analyzer emissions inspections anymore, at least in
the US. If the check-engine light is on, first thing to do is get
the diagnostic code(s) from the car and go from there. For an '02,
check that HCAC adsorber valve underneath and make sure it can turn.
[There's a pic in the training slides.]
.
_H*

[F8L]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Nov 13 2007, 04:49 PM) [snapback]539176[/snapback]</div>

Few cars do gas-analyzer emissions inspections anymore, at least in
the US. If the check-engine light is on, first thing to do is get
the diagnostic code(s) from the car and go from there. For an '02,
check that HCAC adsorber valve underneath and make sure it can turn.
[There's a pic in the training slides.]
.
_H*
[/b]

So how are they actually measuring the emission output? There are no devices on the car in the exhaust stream that are accurate enough to test for this sort of thing.

[hobbit]

OBD-II based emissions testing basically consists of asking the
car, "are you all ok?" and having the car say "yup, I'm okay." More
specifically, querying the state of various emissions-monitor tests
to see if they're a> complete, and b> passed. The car continually
does its own checking, based on expected vs. actual fuel trims, how
well the catalyst is working, periodic fuel-system leak-down tests
to make sure HC isn't escaping, etc. This is called "Mode 6" in the
scantool lingo, and there's a base set of OBD-II mandated stuff that
the inspection machines can just query the car for. They're figuring
the protocol is involved enough that people won't just build a little
board to fake up all the correct responses, and it would be illegal
to do so anyways. Another obvious check is if the MIL is on or not,
and if it comes on briefly at startup until the engine starts [or in
the case of the Prius, goes to READY mode].
.
Some inspection stuff needs to see valid engine RPM before it will
complete the tests. See this which was triggered by the combination
of the inspection facilities in Georgia having no clue, and me having
to teach the kid in the local garage how to get a Prius to idle.
.
_H*

[Vlad]

Hi,
Thanks to everyone for their response.

I live in Red Sox nation (and will update my profile).

The CEL has not been lit up.

The service manager said the car, past the 60K mile mark, is not under warranty.

I do think the dealership is using the basic inspections machine for state of MA. Their $50,000 fancy Toyota diagnostics machine is not what they use by default for inspections.

I'll give Toyota their $20 for the inspection, obtain the printed results, and will take the car to the gas station down the road for another inspection. Hopefully there is no problem after all, and if there is they'll do a better job (or perhaps cheaper) job of diagnosing. I can update this forum when I find out what's going on.

Thanks, Vlad