Red Triangle! Any thoughts?

[daniel]

Today I got the BIG RED TRIANGLE for the first time ever. I know that some folks have had this, only to find that nothing was wrong, and it never reappeared. Nevertheless I'd be interested in comments from those who understand this car. (Wait a minute: I think I had it once when the door was ajar, and a message telling me to put the car in Park while parked.)

So anyway, last time I drove the Prius was 3 weeks ago. I missed church the last two weekends so had no need to drive the Prius. I use the Xebra for in-town driving. On that last occasion, the CAN-View was not working. Probably irrelevant, but I want to be thorough.

I had forgotten about the CAN-View, so just got in and drove to Coeur d'Alene this morning. All was fine. The gas gauge read somewhere around 3/4 full. When I got to church I shut off the car, went around to the passenger side, found that the smaller cable on the CAN-View was loose, and I pushed it in. Probably irrelevant.

After church I got in the car, stepped on the brake, and pressed the Power button. The gas gauge showed the last pip blinking, then after a few blinks, it showed all the pips blinking, and after a few blinks showed half-full solid. All the gear-shift letters had boxes around them. Now I forget if they were blinking. I don't think the Triangle was on yet. The car would not go into gear and the engine never started, though more than ten seconds went by. I stepped on the brake again and pressed the Power button, and the car would not shut down. I tried several times. Finally I took my foot off the brake and pressed Power, and the car shut down.

Short pause. Then I tried again. Three times I repeated everything above.

Then I thought that maybe there was something about the gas tank, because of the odd behavior of the gauge. So, with the car off, I opened and then shut the gas cap. And I completely disconnected the small connector from the CAN-View. (CAN-View probably irrelevant.) I got back in. I got exactly the same behavior as before, but this time the dreaded Triangle was lit. Another try or two. Same.

After several minutes, during which I talked to someone from the church about possibly giving me a ride, I disconnected the big CAN-View connector from the car's CAN-bus data port, and tried again.

This is where my memory of the sequence of events is blurred.

I do not remember if the Triangle remained on when the car finally started, but I think it did. My friend offered to follow me as far as the freeway, so I could then decide if I wanted to risk the freeway, but I decided that driving with the Triangle on was a very bad idea.

I also do not remember if the car started for the first time after I unplugged the CAN-View, or if that was when the Triangle disappeared.

But I know that some people have found that the Triangle disappears after several start-stop cycles, so I tried that, and after one or two more tries, the Triangle disappeared, and all I was left with was the Check light.

I drove home without any further incident, but with the Check light on the whole time. I didn't want to risk stopping at the store, so I came straight home, and took the Xebra out to the grocery store. Now, 3 hours later, I went out to the car. It started fine the first try, and after the requisite ten (?) seconds (kinda seemed more like 15, but I was not timing it) the engine started up. I drove backward and forward a few inches, just to see that it would. The Check light was still on.

I will phone the Toyota dealership first thing tomorrow morning, and take it in to be looked over as soon as they can give me an appointment. But I'd appreciate any thoughts from folks who have had similar experiences, or who understand how this car works.

Thanks.

[Patrick Wong]

Originally Posted by daniel

...After church I got in the car, stepped on the brake, and pressed the Power button. The gas gauge showed the last pip blinking, then after a few blinks, it showed all the pips blinking, and after a few blinks showed half-full solid...

Hi Daniel,

This is evidence that your 12V auxiliary battery is not providing adequate voltage since the fuel gauge lost its memory. No surprise since you did not drive the car for 3 weeks.

The check engine light may be on because a DTC is set when battery voltage drops below a certain level.

I recommend that you recharge your battery if you have access to a charger and then see if the battery holds a charge. 12.6V open-circuit voltage or greater is what you would expect on a fully-charged battery.

Otherwise, it would be a good idea to buy a new battery since it is 4 years old. If your car is lightly used, the battery's lifetime will be shorter than normal.

[daniel]

Originally Posted by Patrick Wong

Hi Daniel,

This is evidence that your 12V auxiliary battery is not providing adequate voltage since the fuel gauge lost its memory. No surprise since you did not drive the car for 3 weeks.

The check engine light may be on because a DTC is set when battery voltage drops below a certain level.

I recommend that you recharge your battery if you have access to a charger and then see if the battery holds a charge. 12.6V open-circuit voltage or greater is what you would expect on a fully-charged battery.

Otherwise, it would be a good idea to buy a new battery since it is 4 years old. If your car is lightly used, the battery's lifetime will be shorter than normal.

Thanks Patrick. I'll ask Toyota about this. Note, though, that it started and ran fine this morning. It was after driving 25 miles, then stopping, and then starting again 90 minutes later, that the problem appeared.

But I guess 4 years is old for a battery.

I used the Prius almost daily until last spring, when I got the Xebra. Since then the Prius sits for a week or two at a time. Three weeks was unusually long.

But if they agree that the aux battery is weak, I'll replace it rather than fuss with one that might poop out soon anyway. Lead batteries do seem not to last an awfully long time. As I think back, 4 or 5 years is all I've ever gotten from one, and those were bigger.

[galaxee]

well, DH can't make a guess because so many conditions cause CELs and triangle warnings, but says that if you get the code and any applicable sub-codes, he can pinpoint the problem from there.

since you drove the car shortly before this happened, even a low 12v should have been charged at that point. a loose ground connection may be possible, but since it only happened that one time, ever, it's on the doubtful side. it might be prudent to replace the 4 year old 12v battery, but have it tested at the dealership before going ahead with that.

[efusco]

Hey Daniel...
Why don't you just use your CAN-View to check your CEL codes and tell us what those are? You've got the right tool, use it.

[daniel]

Originally Posted by galaxee

well, DH can't make a guess because so many conditions cause CELs and triangle warnings, but says that if you get the code and any applicable sub-codes, he can pinpoint the problem from there.

since you drove the car shortly before this happened, even a low 12v should have been charged at that point. a loose ground connection may be possible, but since it only happened that one time, ever, it's on the doubtful side. it might be prudent to replace the 4 year old 12v battery, but have it tested at the dealership before going ahead with that.

Thanks Galaxee. When I take it in I'll ask them which if any codes they find. I guess there'll have to be something.

Originally Posted by efusco

Hey Daniel...
Why don't you just use your CAN-View to check your CEL codes and tell us what those are? You've got the right tool, use it.

How do I do that? And do the earliest versions of Can-View even have that capability?

[efusco]

Originally Posted by daniel

How do I do that? And do the earliest versions of Can-View even have that capability?

I don't know if your version does or not...If you hit the Menu button it should show your options.

Hit DTC and get this:

[daniel]

Nope. DTC is not an option on mine. Might be because I have a cheaper version, or might be because I don't have the latest software flash.

But at least I determined that plugging the CAN_View back in did not cause a recurrence of the problem.

I would want to have them check it out anyway, and it's nearly time for an oil change. I'll post the codes after they've looked at it and gotten them.

[zeeman]

Originally Posted by daniel

Nope. DTC is not an option on mine. Might be because I have a cheaper version, or might be because I don't have the latest software flash.

But at least I determined that plugging the CAN_View back in did not cause a recurrence of the problem.

I would want to have them check it out anyway, and it's nearly time for an oil change. I'll post the codes after they've looked at it and gotten them.

how much does software cost and can you use it on any car with external screen?

what are those relays that you need to purchase for?

[daniel]

Originally Posted by zeeman

how much does software cost and can you use it on any car with external screen?

what are those relays that you need to purchase for?

CAN-View is a gadget that was being sold by a gentleman in Canada who built them to order in his basement. It works with the MFD on the 2004 and 2005 Prius, but the 2006 and beyond uses a different MFD, so CAN-View required a separate screen, which you'd have to purchase on your own. He didn't charge anything for software updates, but I don't have the hardware to flash the unit.

I heard that he is no longer building or supporting the unit. It was more a hobby than a business for him.

Scan-Gauge is a device that is available, that provides some of the same information. I know nothing more about it. I like the CAN-View because it lets me see, in real time, parameters like actual SoC of the traction battery, actual gas tank level, amperage into or out of the traction battery, coolant temperature. It also shows when the car is in ICE Run mode, "Stealth" mode, EV mode, and it shows EV Deny. Some versions include an EV switch. Lots of other parameters are available, but those are the ones of most interest to me. Some versions allow you to read the error codes, but I don't know if that's a later firmware version than I have, or a different hardware configuration. I suspect it's firmware.