Prius over long term?

[abcdefgary]

Hi,

I'm in the line for a new Prius, and I hope to own this car for a while until I am financially capable of buying another.

I read somewhere that the Prius's battery needs to be changed after so many miles or something like that.

Now that we know the GEN III Prius will have a more advanced battery, what about the previous generation owners?

Will we have to pay more to get a battery changed if they are focused on building the new generation battery?

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks.

[justlurkin]

The battery pack in the Prius is intended to last the lifetime of the car. As long as you don't abuse it by doing stupid things like run out of gas and cause the battery to run down (which is bad for its longevity), the battery should not give you problems.

If the battery does develop problems, you are covered by an 8-year / 100,000-mile warranty on it. 10-year / 150,000-miles in the states with California-standard emissions laws.

If you are wondering if the battery packs are upgradeable (such as putting a Generation-II battery pack in a Generation-I Prius), no, it can't be done-- Gen I and II batteries are not compatible.

Rumor has it that Gen-IIIs will be initially shipping with a nickel metal hydride battery but later Gen-IIIs will have lithium-ion, so Gen-III's might be able to take battery upgrades, but that's just hearsay at this point.

Hope this helps.

[bwilson4web]

We are finding the NHW11, 01-03 Prius, batteries were significantly improved with the current NHW20, 04-current Prius. The terminal plastic is much thicker and it really looks to be a more robust design.

Heat is the enemy of these batteries and in particular, high charge currents. However, both of these can be mitigated: (1) park in shady areas, and (2) avoid heavy regenerative charging by using "B" on large hills. These can significantly improve traction battery life as well as regular use of the car.

You can't mix NHW11 and NHW20 modules because the terminal dimensions changed. However, it looks like one could rebuild an NHW11 pack with NHW20 modules and have a 'super' pack. But it won't buy you much.

There is an assumption that the traction battery is the key to high mileage but not in the way most folks think. It isn't the EV mode as much as the 'engine complement' mode that gives the outstanding mileage.

The hybrid transaxle works with the engine to give good performance from a fairly small engine. The battery and MG1/MG2 combine with the computer operated engine to make a seamless, integrated package. Keeping the engine in the most fuel efficient speed ranges is the trick.

Questions?

Bob Wilson

[bac]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

(2) avoid heavy regenerative charging by using "B" on large hills.

Questions?

Bob Wilson

Hey Bob - nice post!

I have a question in terms of heavy regenerative charging. Should I stay away from green bars in general, or just stay away from having a "state of charge" with EVERY the green bars showing?

There are several long hills where I now get every green bar showing at the bottom. Is this overheating (or leading to premature wear?) my battery?

... Brad

[richard schumacher]

Toyota is in the best position to answer those questions. Since they designed the car to do those things in normal operation, the answers are probably "it's not worth worrying about", and "no".

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by bac

Hey Bob - nice post!

I have a question in terms of heavy regenerative charging. Should I stay away from green bars in general, or just stay away from having a "state of charge" with EVERY the green bars showing?

There are several long hills where I now get every green bar showing at the bottom. Is this overheating (or leading to premature wear?) my battery?

Can you be more specific on the size of these hills?

As a general rule, anything over 500 ft., I'm using "B" on the descent. The reason is I am more interested in avoiding the extra heat from charging the battery than anything else. On the ascent, I try to stay in the 55-60 mph range so I get a maximum efficiency climb. But this is my driving style aimed at maximum life and the NHW11 has the weaker batteries.

If you have an NHW20, you may be perfectly OK but to the best of my knowledge, no one has done a traction battery temperature study. I did with a forced-charge and got a 9C rise in temperature. IMHO, this is more than I want at this stage of my Prius experience.

Bob Wilson

[jayman]

Originally Posted by abcdefgary

I read somewhere that the Prius's battery needs to be changed after so many miles or something like that.

I'm sure if you dig around the Internet, you will come across a laughible "factual" article written by Chris Demorro of Central Connecticut State University

The Recorder

In which he claims it's better to drive a Hummer than a Prius. Surprisingly, a lot of right-wing hillbillies believe his rantings, even though The REcorder has had very Left Wing themes about drug use, rape, etc

One claim he made is that the Prius is responsible for the "moonscape" around Sudbury, Ontario. Um, *what* moonscape? That was fixed a long time ago. Certainly, the official Sudbury group had a lot to say about THAT

Sudbury Earth Decade Committee Prius vs. Hummer Analysis Debunked

Sudbury has been cleaned up over 15 years. So by the time the first Prius went into production, there was no more "moonscape" thing

That Sudbury INCO plant has been in operation for about a century, ironically to meet American demand for steel. Toyota currently purchases 1% of total yearly output from the Sudbury operation. How much does GM, Ford, Dodge, purchase? You can look it up

More claims were made by Art Spinella of CNW Marketing. A shill of the Big Three, his "dust to dust" analysis of the Hummer vs the Prius is a joke. Ignorant hillbillies want to believe it, but many have thouroughly discredited the "research"

Pacific Institute

https://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid175.php

So, how long does the Prius battery last? Nobody really knows. There are taxi fleets with +400,000 km on the Prius, operating in a harsh climate like Winnipeg, Manitoba (Winter temps -40 C, summer temps +35 C) that are running just fine. Like most taxi's, they're written off in crashes before wearing out

So, where is this statement that the Prius battery *must* be replaced after so many miles or years? There is no such article. Oak Ridge National Laboratory did a study on the Prius, in essence reverse-engineering it

Information Bridge: DOE Scientific and Technical Information - - Document #890029

So did Argonne National Laboratories

Hybrid Vehicle Technology - Home

The DOE, in conjunction with Idaho National Laboratory, did an end-of-life study of the first generation Prius. This test was done to 160,000 miles. The 2003 Prius had 39% battery capacity remaining after 160,000 mi, which impacted fuel economy not at all. If anything, they recorded a slight *increase* in fuel economy after 160,000 miles

Information Bridge: DOE Scientific and Technical Information - - Document #911275

But assuming the worst, and after the warranty has run out on the traction battery pack, it gives up. The replacement cost is usually the same as a front wheel drive automatic transaxle.