Anyone else with a history of a bad transmission?

[kenworthey]

I have found two others, besides myself, who have experienced catastrophic failure of their transaxle system in their 2001 Priuses: one at 1100 miles, and one at 67,000 miles.

I am seeking others. I realize there weren't many 2001 Priuses sold in this country at all, and far fewer still who have collected appreciable mileage. However, if you have had this problem, or know of someone who has, please have them PM me, or call me at 203-444-9060.

Thanks!
Kenworthey

[hdrygas]

Could you expand. I for one would like details. This could potentially effect all of us. What part of the trans axle? PSD (I hope not) the chain drive? What?

[kenworthey]

I wish I could expand--at this point, I can't. All they will tell me is, "It's the 'transmission.'" They categorically refuse to tell me if it is the PSD, the MGs, the oil pumps for the MGs, the inverter, or what. Toyota Corporate is shockingly unconcerned. I am trying to make them concerned by giving them a sense of how important this failure is, and what percentave of Prius owners are likely to experience it. To do so, I am gathering data on other Prius owners who have had such catastrophic failures, data on how many 2001 Priuses were made and sold in the US, the mean and standard deviations for miles driven per year, so that I can compute how many 2001 Priuses have reached my (and the other guys) "vintage," etc.

I will certainly let this group know what I find out, and how Toyota handles this. (Badly, so far.) If you are interested in details, you can search the Care & Maintenance section, as there is a long thread on the subject. Or, you can check the Yahoo Prius user's group.

[V8Cobrakid]

Kenworthey: I see plenty of "classic" prius owners in the S.F. Bay area. There are probably hundreds of them in the Palo Alto area. I'll ask a few that i see. It would be nice to know how wide spread this problem is.

[kenworthey]

Thanks! Do let me know. I think it's unlikely that Erik, me, and the three over on the yahoo! prius groups are the only ones...

[kenworthey]

An update:

So far, Erik and I have documented six other 2001 Prius owners who have experienced this problem. Four (including us) have experienced it after 60,000 miles--the mileage past which Toyota refuses to cover it.

To put this in perspective, combining Toyota USA sales data on the 2001 Prius, with data from a NHTSA study showing the mean and standard deviation for annual mileage on a typical American car, there are only about 2560 2001-model-year Priuses with over 60,000 miles on the US roads today. We have found 4 post-60,000 miles catastrophic failures just in the last few days, through internet scoping. Presuming, conservatively, that this reflects a third of the true number of failures *so far* post warranty, then these cars are catastrophically failing at the rate of one in 213 post warranty. If it were a $100 dollar repair, that might be an acceptable failure rate. But with a repair that equals the value of the car, it's not.

Erik and I have fedexed letters appealing directly to the CEO, COO and CFO to please pay attention to this problem (and to us!) I hope Toyota lives up to its good reputation in response...

[jayman]

I'm hoping this doesn't indicate a flaw with the PSD or CVT in the Prius. Has this been logged with NHTSA yet?

I remember how the early to mid 90's Chrysler minivans had an automatic transaxle failure rate of 50%. That ended up costing owners a lot of money, and it didn't appear to matter how often they serviced it either (Weak design).

[kenworthey]

As far as I can tell, nothing at NHTSA. But I think this might be the edge of the sword. Our guess is this failure is most likely to occur after the car has been driven 60K or more miles (though we've also found four failures at younger than 60K miles).

IF it is a flaw with either the manufacture or design of the PSD or eCVT, we have faith that Toyota will make it good. Or at any rate, we hope so. We have had very bad luck at the local level so far, but we have just now fedexed our experience to higher level executives at Toyota, who we hope will take it more seriously than the lower-level customer service reps, whose m.o. seems to be "deny, deny, deny!"

[DanMan32]

But how about the taxis and other prius that have gone 100K+?

Have you determined WHAT in your CVT has failed? I have yet to hear that from you in any of your posts. That's like saying "engine failed". OK, that could be a piston, crack in the head, camshaft, timing chain, anything. And are others experiencing the SAME failed component?

Find out what they are quoting you. Insurance certainly would, right down to the last bolt.

[kenworthey]

Hi DanMan, and thanks for your post. Sorry for frustrating you! Believe me, I would love to get more details about my CVT. The dealership doesn't return my calls. Nor does customer care (I've been told now on four separate occasions that they would call me the next day, and this has never happened.) I've finally given up, and am fedexing a letter to corporate. I am reluctant to have my car towed away to another dealership yet, until I get the final word from Toyota, because I'm told--by people in these groups as well as Libertyville Toyota, the dealer to whom I'd like to tow it--that they look very unfavorably on that. But I will do that on May 6, which is the date by which I told Toyota Corporate I needed some answers.

Erik's car *has* been diagnosed more thoroughly than mine, and he has posted the parts that were listed in the yahoo! group.

In the meantime, I'm trying to gather data about the rate of failure of these cars. Besides mine and Eriks, we have learned of seven other catastrophic transmission failures in the 2001 Prius so far. In those cases where we have details, the stories sound the same: usually, a "whining" or "howling" noise for a few miles, then loss of power, as though it were running just on battery. Then the diagnosis of total transmission failure.