Question about TSBs and stalling

llin123 · 07-02-2005, 07:10 PM

I apologize if this information is already available, but I didn't find it easy to locate. I'm about to drive 2000 miles later this month and don't want to have a stalling problem. I'm in a wedding and absolutely cannot be late.

1) What exactly are the possible causes of the stalling? I've heard about both software and a part that doesn't completely seal something it's supposed to keep sealed. Do I need the software update given that my car was produced on 5/1/04? Any information about these items would be greatly appreciated.

2) If I take my car to the dealer, are they required to fix these problems for free? Some people posting here also have claimed that the dealer has said that they won't fix anything until there's a problem, but that seems unreasonable. Are they allowed to refuse to fix these problems and/or charge me for fixing them?

3) Is there a good place to find Prius TSBs? The website alldata.com seems to have all Toyota TSBs grouped together and it looks like you have to pay to get access to the less recent TSBs.

Any information about this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Frank Hudon · 07-02-2005, 07:30 PM

if your car was built in 2k4 and needs the patch you should have recieved a notification from Toyota already. You can always contact Toyota and ask them if you car is in the serial number range for the SSC-40-D TSB. Be advised that you will require your serial number when you call so have it ready. If you haven't had a stalling problem, you probably never will. Have fun at the wedding. On the seal for the hood, that will come up as well if needed when you call.

llin123 · 07-02-2005, 07:52 PM

The only notice that I have received is for the brake light issue. I got that fixed about 6 months ago. Do you know why I wouldn't receive a notice? Do they only send out notices for recalls and not TSBs?

Can you elaborate on the seal? On some other threads, people have mentioned "an improperly sealed connector which allowed condensation to get inside and short the system out" or an "engine seal." Are these the same as what you are referring to?

galaxee · 07-02-2005, 08:19 PM

I wouldn't worry. If you haven't had trouble yet, your chances are low anyway. Maybe if you're REALLY concerned, you could bring the car in for a "check up" and ask if there are any TSBs that apply to your car.

Just don't run the car low on gas. Recent theory here on PriusChat is that a lot of people that had stalling actually ran out of gas...

ops:

jayman · 07-02-2005, 08:41 PM

Well, it's important to keep in mind that a TSB is *not* a recall. A Technical Service Bulletin is sent to the dealer tech to give a head's up or a new procedure for a repair.

It's hard to know if you will or will not experience a stall. There won't be any warning until it happens, and it's very rare.

It happened to me last November and I'm pretty sure I had at least 3/4 of a tank of gas.

One thing I wish I had known was that in almost every case, you can recover from this just by stopping and power down. Wait a few minutes and power up again. The TOD (Triangle of Death) may still be on, if it is power down.

Wait a few minutes and power up again. If the TOD is still on, power off and wait a few minutes. Apparently, after several such power up cycles the car will recover and you can continue.

My mistake was only trying to power cycle the car twice. When the flatbed wrecker arrived and I tried to drive the car into a better position, the ICE started normally and only the Check Engine light remained on.

At least I didn't have to wait very long for a wrecker. The stars aligned when my Prius gave the TOD, it was right in front of the largest towing outfit in Winnipeg. I only had to wait for the tow driver to finish pressure washing his rig.

hobbit · 07-02-2005, 09:49 PM

Generally it takes three full reboots to clear a red-triangle
problem [unless the cause is still there]. The
alternative is to use a scantool to clear the DTCs, but most people
don't carry one on the road with them. The three reboots is
probably similar to the "two-trip" detection logic for many parameters that the
brains keep track of -- if a problem occurs and then clears up again
in two [or maybe three] more tries, the ECUs
declare it "fixed" and clear the condition themselves.
_
The other way to force-clear the codes is pull the aux battery
supply and wait a couple minutes, but then you lose a
bunch of other settings [clock, radio stations, no-reverse-beep, etc].
_
_H*

Frank Hudon · 07-02-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

The only notice that I have received is for the brake light issue. I got that fixed about 6 months ago. Do you know why I wouldn't receive a notice? Do they only send out notices for recalls and not TSBs?

Can you elaborate on the seal? On some other threads, people have mentioned "an improperly sealed connector which allowed condensation to get inside and short the system out" or an "engine seal." Are these the same as what you are referring to?

the seal is on the upper cowl lip and is to fully seal the hood at the rear. On some early 2k4's the factory seal lets water spill over on to the cam cover on the ICE and the water can seep down the spark plug tubes and short out the spark plugs. It's just a piece of sticky one side weather stripping. Danman32 posted most of the serial number sequence that the TSB's apply to a while back. Do a search on PC and include TSB in the search box and it'll probably show up. If you got the notice for the brake light switch problem and nothing else I'd say your car wasn't in the serial number range for the other TSB's.

DanMan32 · 07-06-2005, 11:39 AM

You won't get a notice for a TSB. Some dealers will do a calibration update proactively for you if you ask and your car qualifies, others will only do it if there is a problem. Technically, Toyota only warranties the work to repair a problem.

Remember Kyle mentioning a TSB regarding a possible internal inverter coolant leak? It's a TSB, not a recall, but if the tech finds codes indicating high voltage shorts in the inverter, the TSB states to replace the inverter (duh!). But the dealer won't replace the inverter just because you tell them there's a TSB out on it. It's just too expensive to do it for everyone when only a rare few will experience the problem. And the inverter problem is not recoverable roadside as the calibration issue is.

07-02-2005, 07:10 PM	#1
llin123 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Question about TSBs and stalling I apologize if this information is already available, but I didn't find it easy to locate. I'm about to drive 2000 miles later this month and don't want to have a stalling problem. I'm in a wedding and absolutely cannot be late. 1) What exactly are the possible causes of the stalling? I've heard about both software and a part that doesn't completely seal something it's supposed to keep sealed. Do I need the software update given that my car was produced on 5/1/04? Any information about these items would be greatly appreciated. 2) If I take my car to the dealer, are they required to fix these problems for free? Some people posting here also have claimed that the dealer has said that they won't fix anything until there's a problem, but that seems unreasonable. Are they allowed to refuse to fix these problems and/or charge me for fixing them? 3) Is there a good place to find Prius TSBs? The website alldata.com seems to have all Toyota TSBs grouped together and it looks like you have to pay to get access to the less recent TSBs. Any information about this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

07-02-2005, 07:52 PM	#3
llin123 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Re: Question about TSBs and stalling The only notice that I have received is for the brake light issue. I got that fixed about 6 months ago. Do you know why I wouldn't receive a notice? Do they only send out notices for recalls and not TSBs? Can you elaborate on the seal? On some other threads, people have mentioned "an improperly sealed connector which allowed condensation to get inside and short the system out" or an "engine seal." Are these the same as what you are referring to?

07-02-2005, 08:41 PM	#5
jayman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Posts: 11,564 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: B Thanks: 35 Thanked 185 Times in 168 Posts Friends: 12	Re: Question about TSBs and stalling Well, it's important to keep in mind that a TSB is not a recall. A Technical Service Bulletin is sent to the dealer tech to give a head's up or a new procedure for a repair. It's hard to know if you will or will not experience a stall. There won't be any warning until it happens, and it's very rare. It happened to me last November and I'm pretty sure I had at least 3/4 of a tank of gas. One thing I wish I had known was that in almost every case, you can recover from this just by stopping and power down. Wait a few minutes and power up again. The TOD (Triangle of Death) may still be on, if it is power down. Wait a few minutes and power up again. If the TOD is still on, power off and wait a few minutes. Apparently, after several such power up cycles the car will recover and you can continue. My mistake was only trying to power cycle the car twice. When the flatbed wrecker arrived and I tried to drive the car into a better position, the ICE started normally and only the Check Engine light remained on. At least I didn't have to wait very long for a wrecker. The stars aligned when my Prius gave the TOD, it was right in front of the largest towing outfit in Winnipeg. I only had to wait for the tow driver to finish pressure washing his rig.

07-02-2005, 09:49 PM	#6
hobbit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bahstahn Posts: 3,625 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 216 Times in 118 Posts Friends: 0	Re: Question about TSBs and stalling Generally it takes three full reboots to clear a red-triangle problem [unless the cause is still there]. The alternative is to use a scantool to clear the DTCs, but most people don't carry one on the road with them. The three reboots is probably similar to the "two-trip" detection logic for many parameters that the brains keep track of -- if a problem occurs and then clears up again in two [or maybe three] more tries, the ECUs declare it "fixed" and clear the condition themselves. _ The other way to force-clear the codes is pull the aux battery supply and wait a couple minutes, but then you lose a bunch of other settings [clock, radio stations, no-reverse-beep, etc]. _ _H*

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07-02-2005, 07:30 PM	#2
Frank Hudon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,144 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	if your car was built in 2k4 and needs the patch you should have recieved a notification from Toyota already. You can always contact Toyota and ask them if you car is in the serial number range for the SSC-40-D TSB. Be advised that you will require your serial number when you call so have it ready. If you haven't had a stalling problem, you probably never will. Have fun at the wedding. On the seal for the hood, that will come up as well if needed when you call.

07-02-2005, 08:19 PM	#4
galaxee resident lab rat Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: boilermaker territory Posts: 9,675 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: N/A Package: #5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 94 Times in 37 Posts Friends: 26	I wouldn't worry. If you haven't had trouble yet, your chances are low anyway. Maybe if you're REALLY concerned, you could bring the car in for a "check up" and ask if there are any TSBs that apply to your car. Just don't run the car low on gas. Recent theory here on PriusChat is that a lot of people that had stalling actually ran out of gas... ops:

07-06-2005, 11:39 AM	#8
DanMan32 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 3,775 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	You won't get a notice for a TSB. Some dealers will do a calibration update proactively for you if you ask and your car qualifies, others will only do it if there is a problem. Technically, Toyota only warranties the work to repair a problem. Remember Kyle mentioning a TSB regarding a possible internal inverter coolant leak? It's a TSB, not a recall, but if the tech finds codes indicating high voltage shorts in the inverter, the TSB states to replace the inverter (duh!). But the dealer won't replace the inverter just because you tell them there's a TSB out on it. It's just too expensive to do it for everyone when only a rare few will experience the problem. And the inverter problem is not recoverable roadside as the calibration issue is.