How to find fuel efficient LRR (low rolling resistance) tires

[tomdeimos]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theorist @ Jun 29 2006, 11:18 PM) [snapback]278936[/snapback]</div>

I've got to get out of Lexington.

As it is, if a set of tires lasts 50,000 miles, one gets 30 mpg while the other gets 32mpg, the more fuel efficient tires save over 100 gallons of gas. If gas costs $3/gallon (with prices rising as fast as the rate of return), it's economical to spend $75 more _per_ tire for the more fuel efficient tires. If we change the situation to 52mpg vs 50mpg, it's nearly a 40mpg difference, economical at a $30 price premium per tire.

I probably place far too much faith in the rationality of my fellow man. Still, if we're going to force people, why not institute a one family - one vehicle law and ration gasoline with each person being limited to 10 gallons a week? :P
[/b]

We already did have rationing for gasoline. Have you forgotton? Under Nixon.
We will again some day soon.

As to your prices if the greener tires cost so much more I really don't think they'd use them on oem tires.
The reason some cost a lot now is because hardly anyone buys them and everything costs more in low volume.

As for the one family one vehicle law, you have it backwards. We should have laws encouraging families to own more vehicles. Things like insuring the drivers, not the vehicles. Sales tax changes. Etc so people can own more vehicles without extra cash flow expenses after purchase. We'd be a lot better off and use less gasoline if every SUV owner could have a small commuting car too. The way it is most people can afford one or two cars and they have to pick the biggest one they sometimes need.

[tnthub]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tomdeimos @ Jun 29 2006, 09:17 PM) [snapback]278898[/snapback]</div>

Clearly this thread alone is proof enough we need legislation to force people to buy greener tires.

Why is everyone upset about this? We had to have legislation for seat belts, air bags, etc alll for the same reason. Nobody would buy them, and seems here most of the people here are looking for anything but greener tires for their Prius.

And I'm sure the goal is not to ban tires but to force manufacturers to spend the extra few pennies it costs to make tires all more efficient.

I expect all non-energy star appliances will be banned soon too. Just like the old 6 gallon flush toilets were.
[/b]

I'm about to fall off my chair...

Are you serious? More legislation?

So the fact that my 28 x 12 1/2 x 15 Et Streets provide better fuel economy than my 26 x 8 x 16 OEM tires should be against the law? Mt ET Streets are the softest compound available, massively large, and stick to the point where I can pull the front end off the ground. I can't drive them in the rain, and they are so sticky that I can pick rocks off the pavement with them when they are extremely hot. However despite the fact they will wear out in less than 5000 miles I can get at least 2 miles per gallon better mileage with them and you think these tires should be made illegal?

How about the guy who wants to get out of his driveway in winter to go to work? How about the fellow who wants to go camping in the spring with his family? How about the guy that simply wants to corner a little better than he could when the car was completely stock?

You want to outlaw tires that provide better grip on the road? Shorter stopping distances? Better cornering? Better snow and mud traction?

You will save more fuel, more lives, and lower the number of insurance claims if you developed a mandatory drivers education and testing process, that is paid by licensed drivers, every four to six years.

Tire company improve their tires by developing them for different purposes. The industry is continually evolving. A tire is actually a suspension component of the vehicle that can change many things about the drivability of the car/truck.

The number of people actually installing less efficient tires that are unaware of what they are doing can be overcome simply through education, at far less cost to taxpayers than legislation.

This is just my opinion and no flames are intended.

[gschoen]

Sell more vehicles to reduce gas consumption? That's interesting logic.

Of course, with more vehicles we need more places to put them. In big cities, we have building whose sole purpose is to hold these cars.

My partner and I share a car. If we had another one, it's safe to say we'd drive more because of greater convenience, that is, I could use more since I wouldn't have to work around his schedule. If more people owned cars, why ride the train or take your bike? As it is, many people in big cities don't own cars at all. I could get along without one, with a loss of convenience.

[tnthub]

In regards to air bags..... It took me six months to obtain an exemption from air bags. I have a six point welded bar in my car and 5-point harnesses, which are far safer than the "mandatory" air bags. I was able to eliminate 80 pounds of weight by removing the airbags, plus when I go to the track I no longer need to be concerned about the airbag going off.

I had to obtain a special letter of approval as airbag legislation did not allow for me to use any "standard forms". i was told "no" for months. Legislation is not always a good thing.

[tomdeimos]

Absolutely we need lots of more legislation. We better just agree to disagree on this. I don't think market forces are taking us in any of the directions we need to go in as a society. People will eventually realize this.

But as to the other pioints. I think you are very mistaken regarding green tires. Both my summer and my wnter Michelin tires are great, among the best I ever used on any car ever, and match or exceed the mpg of the oem tires on the Prius. There are both bad ones and good ones I am sure. But in all price ranges they can make them better but there is clearly no incentive right now to bother.

The point is they can make good greener tires if there they have to do it. Without some prodding they can't be expected to bother.
And if you just consider your personal costs lots of things aren't worth doing but have to be done because society needs it done.

Personnally I'd rather have green tires and seat belts outlawed. Skp the recycling I have to do with trash. etc. Lots of things we are forced to do aren't worthwhile for me personally.

But if we can do anything that saves 5% on our natitons fuel use it seems worthwile for everyone together right now.

[tnthub]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tomdeimos @ Jun 30 2006, 02:10 PM) [snapback]279218[/snapback]</div>

Absolutely we need lots of more legislation. We better just agree to disagree on this. I don't think market forces are taking us in any of the directions we need to go in as a society. People will eventually realize this.

But as to the other pioints. I think you are very mistaken regarding green tires. Both my summer and my wnter Michelin tires are great, among the best I ever used on any car ever, and match or exceed the mpg of the oem tires on the Prius. There are both bad ones and good ones I am sure. But in all price ranges they can make them better but there is clearly no incentive right now to bother.

The point is they can make good greener tires if there they have to do it. Without some prodding they can't be expected to bother.
And if you just consider your personal costs lots of things aren't worth doing but have to be done because society needs it done.

Personnally I'd rather have green tires and seat belts outlawed. Skp the recycling I have to do with trash. etc. Lots of things we are forced to do aren't worthwhile for me personally.

But if we can do anything that saves 5% on our natitons fuel use it seems worthwile for everyone together right now.
[/b]

But it isn't 5%.... It is somewhere around 1/10 of 1% and far greater savings could be realized if people simply kept their tires at the proper inflation level...

[tnthub]

If you want to reduce fuel consumption by 5% across the board, put together legislation that offers a tax incentive for anybody with a conventional (non-hybrid) car to install a high performance (low restriction), air filter, and a low restriction exhaust (keep the emission controls), and you will achieve a 5% or higher across the board reduction in fuel use across then entire fleet of existing cars and light trucks. The actual saving would probably be closer to 10% if you figure the average V8 or V6 gas guzzler gets 25mpg and will achieve a 2-3 mpg increase in economy. Plus more efficiently burned fuel will have fewer harmful emissions.

[tomdeimos]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ Jun 30 2006, 02:57 PM) [snapback]279245[/snapback]</div>

But it isn't 5%.... It is somewhere around 1/10 of 1% and far greater savings could be realized if people simply kept their tires at the proper inflation level...
[/b]

Maybe you are right. But the post at the top here mentions 5 to 10% difference in tires. I've also seen lots of posts at priuschat about some of the non-LRR tires and seems to me some claim their tires work like the oem ones, and others say they lose about 2 mpg. And we do have lots of rolling resistance in tires that could be improved on if anyone worked on it. Till tire companies have to do something they can just say they can't just like GM can't make high mpg cars so we can't raise the mpg standards.

[tnthub]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tomdeimos @ Jul 1 2006, 01:16 AM) [snapback]279548[/snapback]</div>

Maybe you are right. But the post at the top here mentions 5 to 10% difference in tires. I've also seen lots of posts at priuschat about some of the non-LRR tires and seems to me some claim their tires work like the oem ones, and others say they lose about 2 mpg. And we do have lots of rolling resistance in tires that could be improved on if anyone worked on it. Till tire companies have to do something they can just say they can't just like GM can't make high mpg cars so we can't raise the mpg standards.
[/b]

With todays tire technology reduced rolling resistance also equates to less traction which means longer braking distances and less corner capacity. On a car sucj as the Prius, which in stock form corners as poorly as a 1990 Lincoln with 70 series radials, in my opinion (as a professional driver), it would be creating a deathtrap for the average consumer.

[DocVijay]

Also, in going from a relatively low rolling resistance tire to a much higher resistance tire (and wider and heavier too) I went from 52 mpg to 51.3 mpg. That is a 1.35% drop.