PriusChat Mileage Database - ideas and input for features needed!

[Guy in WNY]

Hello.
OK, when you state MFD mpg, do you mean that it should be reset after each fill up? I've tried to NEVER reset mine, so it shows the lifetime mpg for the car. (Actually, I accidently reset it at about 16,000 miles or so while messing with the audio display. Oops! But that was months ago.)
So which is it? Who else never resets the MFD mpg display?
Maybe a box to fill in - "odometer reading when MFD was reset"?
My "lifetime" mpg's since resetting the mfd are at 44.2mpg. As you can tell, I have a heavy right foot, but still way better than a conventional car.

73's
Guy
KC2PMM

[KAR IDEA]

Once the PriusChat mileage database project gets off the ground, I would like to import my greenhybrid database into it. Is that possible?

[ruby]

Hi Danny,

Any idea on when this may be available? I'm just starting to keep track with my new 2008 Prius and I'm already doing it in two places, but I would do it here if it's going to be better and soon

Thanks for administering such a great site.

[eel]

Hi. I just got my Prius. Dealership filled the tank and I reset MPG to track my own. I have it for a week and my average in 31.2 mpg. I am really frustrated with this number. I do not step on gas, I do not use cruise control, my terraine is 85% flat (it's KS). What am I doing wrong? I was expecting at least 45 mpg in town.

[Aces]

I noticed the mention of kWh. Is that for EBH usage or PHEV mods, Or both? Should we diferentiate?

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by KAR IDEA

Once the PriusChat mileage database project gets off the ground, I would like to import my greenhybrid database into it. Is that possible?

I can't address how to input to a future mileage database. However, it is fairly easy to export from GreenHybrid:

• cut-and-paste display into excel - this puts the normal display fields into separate columns. The problem is getting the 'pop-up' or hidden fields.
• cut-and-paste HTML source into excel - this technique gets even the hidden fields such as entry date and notes. However, it is a little tricky since 80% of the text is HTML and has to be removed. I've been thinking about writing a Perl script to handle this task.

What makes most sense is put together a set of Perl scripts that 'normalize' any given mileage database. This would allow folks to transport their data to any given target at will. The original data remains but now the user can select the host that provides "value added engineering." But let's first see the PriusChat database and then it makes sense, other than backup, to worry about export.

Bob Wilson

[carz89]

Some great ideas here!

Here is my input (some ideas are already mentioned)

1. database should allow for more precise input (degrees down to one degree, not 10 degrees like GreenHybrid).

2. minimize the required input (date range, miles, & gallons), but allow for an amazing amount of optional additional data input.

Input field should default to the previous entry, allowing the user to edit only the fields that have changed. Some may change very infrequently (such as location, EV button usage). Additional data fields I'd like to see:
a. predominant weather conditions (% precipitation, snow, windy)
b. terrain
c. % city, % highway
d. typical speed in city, typical speed on highway
e. driving method used (normal 'don't think about it', P&G, warp stealth)
f. EV button usage
g. gas station brand
h. tire air pressure
i. weight load (includes driver)
j. cumulative miles traveled
k. type of oil (dino vs. synthetic)

3. provide a great filtering tool which will allow for great scientific analysis of how any single variable affects mpg, and provide a graphing tool to chart the data. For example, mpg versus weight load (all other variables being relatively constant). We should be able to analyze collective mpg versus miles traveled (perhaps in groups: 0-5k, 5k-10k, 10k-15k, etc)

4. I think it is a great idea to be able to geographically analyze/display data, especially in conjunction with Google Maps, and provide some basic map filtering tools, such as location by political boundary, zip code, geometric circle. When displaying the filtered data on a map, allow for user-defined levels (mpg versus color shading, for example)

a. probably too ambitious for your first "version", but eventually it would be great to analyze the mpg data based upon specific roads traveled. Many of us travel the same roads repeatedly. I would envision this as a completely separate database where the user could enter just his/her trip information (route taken, trip mpg, and all the other variables). This would differ from your main database, in which the users enter information by the tank.

5. I really like the idea to import historical temperature data (weighted by time of day for user-selected commutes) for the user's location.

[Rae Vynn]

GreenHybrid no longer takes MPG information

I'm sitting here, stunned, wondering what to do with my gas receipt....

HELP!!

[TheForce]

Use CleanMPG, An authoritative source on fuel economy and hypermiling

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

A moderator at GreenHybrid, I can offer some facts and data:

Originally Posted by Rae Vynn

GreenHybrid no longer takes MPG information

I'm sitting here, stunned, wondering what to do with my gas receipt....

The owners of GreenHybrid implemented a new database called "Garage." My 03 Prius along with every other vehicle was imported and suddenly I found I had two "2003 Prius" vehicles. So I clicked on each and found two rather ugly vehicle shells and no evidence of my 3 years, 57,000 miles, 185 tank records. So I started looking for my records (and everyone else.)

So I scrolled down and discovered a Fuel Economy Chart:

• Prius - 39.8
• Civic - 47.1
• Camry Hybrid - 36.5
• Escape - 30.6
• Highlander - 26.1
• Accord - 30.7
• Insight - 65.7
• Altima Hybrid - 34.4
• Mariner - 29.0
• RX 400h - 24.4

Notice anything 'funny'? Ok, new database, there will be some integration and testing errors. So I started looking.

The usual link is "Compare" and clicking it revealed a list:

"Vehicle" "Median MPG" "Vehicles in Sample"
Prius 48.19 1719
Civic 47.07 1107
Camry Hybrid 36.77 614
Escape 30.84 366
Highlander 26.29 197
Accord 30.62 107
Insight 68.78 98
Altima Hybrid 34.79 59
Mariner 29.34 55
RX 400h 24.96 54
Vue Green Line 27.9 39
Toyota Prius 49.2 17
Honda Civic 48.04 14
Jetta TDI 45.46 12

So what happened is all Prius models are in one table, the NHW11 and NHW20 models. Also, all Civics, CVT, manual, and the change that happened around 2004 are in a separate table. Fortunately there is not enough difference in the other hybrids (yet!) to be a problem. BTW, the GreenHybrid database was always open so you'll notice some gas "Honda Civic" and "Jetta TDI" records. But not being hybrids, there never was a vehicle summary for them.

Ok, so I decided to look inside the "Prius" table for my "2003 Prius" and it wasn't there. So I kept looking and scrolled down to the bottom the web page and noticed in green text, "Mileage Database." Clicking on this link brought up the original database with all records. Best of all, the links to "Manage My Cars" worked

STEPS:

1. Login to GreenHybrid as usual.
2. Enter this URL: Hybrid Mileage Database - GreenHybrid
3. Click on your vehicle link.

I found my vehicle records including 56,576 miles over 185 tanks. So the first order of business is backup:

• Copy and paste table into spreadsheet - using Firefox browser on a Macintosh, I am able to copy all of my tank records and paste them into a spreadsheet. This saves everything but the tank date and notes.
• Browser "view source" and save - although the HTML/Java script is pretty ugly, this file has all of your data including the tank date and notes. I normally parse it using a spreadsheet (because I'm lazy.) However, if you only have this as a backup, send me a PM and I'll hack up a Perl script to extract your data into a comma or tab delimited format that can be loaded into a spreadsheet or database.
• Browser "Save" - most browsers allow you to save the full HTML into a folder with all of the associated files. Crude, at least you'll have all of the data including the "view source" file.

Did I mention:

Backup your data!

A moderator at GreenHybrid, I'm basicly there to 'keep the lights on.' Sad to say, I'm not part of the team that handles the mileage database. However, over time I have looked at alternatives and they are slim:

1. Fuel Economy - a US Government, EPA managed site, they allow individuals to maintain their mileage records under the model year of their vehicle.
2. Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com - a private web site devoted to vehicle modifications to improve mileage, not hybrid specific but facts and data driven, not egos. However, their database appears to be individual vehicle oriented and weak in any collection of baseline vehicle performance. This makes sense because many are individual, heavily modified vehicles. IMHO, they are CleanMPG refugees.
3. GreenHybrid.com - The Interactive Hybrid Car Resource - new 'garage' database, I am baffled.
4. CleanMPG, An authoritative source on fuel economy and hypermiling - the last time I looked, a couple of years ago, I was appalled to find drivers received "titles". Their practices have nothing to do with baseline vehicle performance but appears to be oriented around some ego contest to see who can achieve some personal best . . . ego worship.

Looking at the mileage database options, if I had to choose within a week or so where to put my records, I would go with:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

1. STABILITY - it is a US Government web site that has a vested interest in getting an accurate sample of vehicle mileage. They can use this data to refine their mileage evaluation and make sure the vehicle stickers are somewhat accurate. Vehicle records are a key quality metric for the current EPA ratings.
2. VEHICLE SUMMARY - currently limited to a given make, model and year, it at least contributes to our knowledge of how hybrid vehicles really work.
3. EVIDENCE OF IMPROVEMENT - I've seen the individual mileage database interface improve, slowly over time. Because it is a USA Government web site, we can petition the EPA through our Congress critters and letters to get improvements.
4. NO EGOS - I can't emphasize how much I find 'hero worship' alienating.

I would apologize for the 'new' GreenHybrid database but as one member posted, 'Garage is missing a "b".'

Originally Posted by Rae Vynn

HELP!!

In about a week or so, I'll decide what I'm going to do. But for now, my recommendation is, "BACK IT UP!" If you have trouble getting your records, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

Bob Wilson