PriusChat Mileage Database - ideas and input for features needed!

[MSantos]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

CleanMPG, An authoritative source on fuel economy and hypermiling - the last time I looked, a couple of years ago, I was appalled to find drivers received "titles". Their practices have nothing to do with the baseline vehicle performance but appear to be oriented around some ego contest to see who can achieve some personal best . . . ego worship.

Bob, if there is one thing I like about CleanMPG "ego" is certainly not the one that comes to mind. Many here at PC are also CleanMPG members and these fine folks are anything but ego driven.

If anything, they are the least single minded and some of the nicest and most generous people I've had the pleasure to deal with.

Frankly, if you are an honest person, then you absolutely need to disclose something important to the PriusChat community:
That you have a long standing disdain and contempt for CleanMPG, its mission and accomplishments. That much is evident to many of us.

Of course their practices have a whole lot to do with vehicle performance baselines. If fact, these practices account for the proverbial missing half that every true career engineer knows and appreciates. If that was not the case then why even have a hybrid specific human interface in the form of information displays? Decorative stuff added to justify the hybrid premium?? And if these are built into the cars then what problem do you have when some in the community work on maximizing the man-machine combination?

That, heavily promoting hybrids and also extending the concept to the other 95% of the driving public regardless of what they drive, is what CleanMPG is all about.

Also hard to deny, is that you and other moderators actively hunted and purged GH out of people who were even remotely sympathetic to CleanMPG's mission. Many excuses were given for deleting posts and suppressing community oriented information but after all was said and done, GH is now where you folks wanted it to be all along. Quite an accomplishment indeed.

I can only hope Danny will recognize and reject the kind of fundamental and narrow minded mediocrity that sank GH, to infect PriusChat.

In fact, I appreciate the apparent efforts at PriusChat to accommodate hypermiling as yet another viable facet of hybrid ownership enjoyment.

Hi there, ________! Looking to maximize your MPGs or become a Hypermiler?

Take a look at the ScanGauge II, a product that will help you achieve higher MPGs....

Whether the suggestion is genuine or simply a means to sell more scangauges, It is definitely not without universal benefits for all PC members who care.

Anyway, like others have stated, if PriusChat is to ever have a good mileage database then CleanMPG is a good template to start with.


MSantos

[bwilson4web]

1. Originally Posted by MSantos

   . . . one thing I like about CleanMPG "ego" is certainly not the one that comes to mind. Many here at PC are also CleanMPG members and these fine folks are anything but ego driven. . . .

   The best answer is to visit CleanMPG and see if you like it. When I saw the "titles" in the CleanMPG database a year and a half ago, I lost interest.

Looking at the mileage database options, if I had to choose within a week or so where to put my records, I would go with:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

1. STABILITY - it is a US Government web site that has a vested interest in getting an accurate sample of vehicle mileage. They can use this data to refine their mileage evaluation and make sure the vehicle stickers are somewhat accurate. Vehicle records are a key quality metric for the current EPA ratings.
2. VEHICLE SUMMARY - currently limited to a given make, model and year, it at least contributes to our knowledge of how hybrid vehicles really work.
3. EVIDENCE OF IMPROVEMENT - I've seen the individual mileage database interface improve, slowly over time. Because it is a USA Government web site, we can petition the EPA through our Congress critters and letters to get improvements.
4. NO EGOS - I can't emphasize how much I find 'hero worship' alienating.

I would apologize for the 'new' GreenHybrid database but as one member posted, 'Garage is missing a "b".'

Originally Posted by Rae Vynn

HELP!!

In about a week or so, I'll decide what I'm going to do. But for now, my recommendation is, "BACK IT UP!" If you have trouble getting your records, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

Bob Wilson

[Rae Vynn]

Thank you, Bill.

Fortunately, i keep written records already. The online was for backup, and for bragging rights.

It's all about simplifying my life, right?

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by Rae Vynn

Thank you, Bill.

Fortunately, I keep written records already.

I'm Bob but you're welcome anyway. But there are other uses for mileage records:

Originally Posted by Rae Vynn

The online was for backup, and for bragging rights.

I look at each record as another set of data points in a larger sample set that helps us understand how the Prius works in real life. The problem with a single sample or a single test protocol or even a single driving stunt is trying to map them into how the vehicle performs in real life with ordinary folks. For example, an NHW11 Prius like mine has been reported:

• 48 Comb - original EPA rating, 52 City / 45 Hwy
• 45 average - sample set of 105 vehicles at GreenHybrid site
• 44 average - sample set of 21 vehicles at EPA site
• 41 Comb - revised EPA rating, 42 City / 41 Hwy

The original EPA test gave the Prius a higher rating than folks got in real life. For example, my first recorded highway mileage was 39 MPG and standing by the pump in Shrieveport, I briefly thought about turning around and taking it back. But instead I tested a different cruise speed and got 53 MPG on the next leg. I then shared my results on highway cruise control settings:

60 mph -> 53 MPG
65 mph -> 52 MPG
70 mph -> 49 MPG
75 mph -> 39 MPG

This approach to Prius highway driving is as simple as choosing a given cruise control speed and getting a predictable result.

Originally Posted by Rae Vynn

It's all about simplifying my life, right?

Yours, mine and any Prius owner who may have paid half a year's income for one of these marvelous vehicles. But the ultimate goal is to gather enough data to support vehicle fleet studies. By collecting all cost of ownership data including repair actions we gain a clue, lessons learned, that can help the next Prius owner.

NOTE: A new mileage database is available for hybrid cars.

Bob Wilson

[JasonS]

This is Jason Siegel. (I'd like to change my username but…)

I've had some trouble getting in contact with Danny lately and I have an idea I thought I might pitch to the community here to see what you all think.

Fuel economy databases are inherently collaborative. The idea is to offer easy-to-use, useful features to members, analyze the data effectively and provide a simple visual interface for visitors. There are several hybrid sites today, some of which cater to a particular niche and others which take a more general approach. Yet, we're all a part of the same community and perhaps some partnerships are in order.

You may note that my new site myHybridCar.com has a new fuel economy database. It has aggregated over 1 million miles in less than two weeks but there is much more room to grow.

I'd like to offer Danny and PriusChat a satellite version of the myHybridCar.com database. What this essentially means it that key pages and statistics would be available right here at PriusChat. You could navigate to priuschat.com/fuel-economy/ for instance and see all the Priuses in the myHybridCar.com database. In the future, perhaps I could develop the capability to enter your data straight from PriusChat and the experience would be completely seamless. In the meantime, however, Danny could do what he likes with the economy page (could take all ad revenue, etc.) in return for helping to expand the amount of data available to the community.

There are some key advantages of a partnership like this. The community would only need to concentrate on adding features to one database. Consumers could access information more easily because there would be fewer databases containing more information. PriusChat users would benefit from the added resource. Danny would be able to concentrate his efforts on the forums and store. myHybridCar.com would be able to concentrate its efforts on improving its database.

Truth be told, we're all in the together. The hybrid movement will continue to grow and consumers will continue to demand information. Ultimately, the world will become a greener place. The only question for us, the online community, is: Can we cooperate?

[JimboK]

Originally Posted by tennisbird86

...

Who would own the database? I'd be more comfortable participating if PC maintained ownership. Frankly, I and (as you've seen in the other thread here) others are a little gun shy after what's happened at GreenHybrid.

[JasonS]

Jim,

I'm not sure how PC could logically own the database. I'm currently working on creating Terms of Use, however, that would clarify that users own the data they upload. I also intend to make spreadsheet downloads available for members to download their tanks. This is something that was never available at GreenHybrid.

[JasonS]

Any other thoughts? I still haven't hard from Danny

[SageBrush]

I like the idea of aggregating data from different websites, but I won't contribute to a database that Jason can sell, shut down, or make the data inaccessible. I certainly will not visit Jason's website to enter data.

[EZW1]

Originally Posted by Danny

Average temperature (F or C)

To be accurate, the average temperature should be basked on a truely average temperature like from the USGS or Farmer's Almanac. Allowing someone to enter their average temperature may bias the results and allow for inaccuracy and ambiguity. We all know that temperature greatly affets the Prius mileage.

So, if you decide to do it this way, you'll need another field for user's location.