Gen 2 Prius vs new 2010 Camry non-hybrid

[DeadPhish]

This is not specifically about the fuel economy on the Gen 2 Prius but I am using my Gen 2 as the standard.

Background: My 2005 is now in the shop for its 6th 'event'. This time a deer decided to expire in the middle of the lane which I normally take home every night. Since this area is very very rural there are no lights except moonlight. It was 10:30 PM and the corpse was suddenly right in my headlights at 60 mph. I was able to straddle it as I would any other road kill, except that the deer was much bigger and thicker.

Net result $4100 of underbody damage. So now I'm driving a new 2010 I4 Camry demo which had 2200 miles on it.

Before the Prius I had 4 Camry's from 1989 to 2005. All were very solid and durable with no issues at all. All of them went over 150,000 mi. For the route I drove I estimated that these vehicles would get 30-32 mpg on an annual basis. The higher number in better weather.

My route is 85% rural highway at ~60 mph and 15% suburban type driving.

In my 2005 Prius after 135,000 mi I'm averaging 47.4 mpg computed by hand ( tot miles driven / tot gallons pumped in ). This is why I went with the Prius after Katrina hit. I couldn't be happier.

The 2010 Camry has the newest iteration of Toyota's 'R' family of engines the 2.5L 1AR. I have also driven the current TCH for many many miles as well. The TCH uses the older 2.4L 2AZ engine linked with the HSD system.

This is the surprising ( to me ) results that I've found in the short time driving the new Camry ( ~1000 miles ).
Prius .............. 135,000 miles 47.4 mpg
2008-10 TCH ...... 2,500 miles 39.0 mpg
2010 Camry ........ 1,000 miles 36.0 mpg
older Camry's ... 400,000 miles 32.0 mpg

The non-hybrid Camry has an EPA highway rating of 32 mpg. It's not surprising that this is a conservative number. What I am surprised about is how consistently the non-hybrid Camry easily achieves Combined 36 mpg. At 60-ish mph on cruise the tank average indicator gains 0.1 mpg every 15 min or so of highway driving. Without the drag of city stop and go driving the all-highway rating might be approaching 40 mpg which is very very very close to what I've been able to achieve in the TCH!!!

This 1AR 2.5L engine is a masterpiece.

But this brings me to my main point. The Gen 2 TCH which will prolly be linked to this masterpiece in 18 mo's or so will nearly approach my Gen 2 Prius in fuel economy, IMHO. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the next TCH achieving mid-to-high 40's in both City and Highway realworld driving.

[Tideland Prius]

mmhmm. The new crop of Toyota engines are very impressive. Heck, even the 2ZR-FE engine in our Prius is a wonder in the Corolla and Matrix. It would be nice if it had direct injection which would boost mpg even more (but at a small price) but even with a 4-spd automatic, the Corolla can net 5.6L/100km (42mpg) on the highway which matches our Yaris' highway mpg (42) despite being bigger and heavier!

[Son of Gloin]

My wife could well be drooling already ... and I'm not even sure she's seen your post yet! She simply LOVES what she's seen of the newer Camry models, and IF your "prediction" for future models is at all relevant or comes to pass, I actually would NOT have any qualms about getting one -- hybrid or otherwise -- if-or-when "Stone White" -- our 1997 Stratus -- finally dies ....

It seems you're experiencing the same sort of pleasant surprise with your Camry "loaner" that we've long experienced with Stone White. "Her" city mpg is the pits as far as I'm concerned -- it's rated at 18 city / 28 highway / 23 overall per the EPA's new rating methods, but we usually get 17 mpg or LESS 'round town! -- but as recently as June, 2008, and with 113K miles already on "her" -- this was shortly before we bought Mithril -- "she" averaged nearly 36 mpg and covered nearly 480 miles of highway driving one particular tank. For that entire, 1600 mile trip during June, "she" averaged just shy of 33 mpg ....

[chuckknight]

1997 Stratus? I used to have a 1996 Stratus, with a manual transmission. LOVED that car. And, I routinely got 35mpg mixed, and 38mpg on the highway.

That car was EASY to drive and get high mileage...no learning curve.

In fact, it's one of the reasons why I have a Prius...couldn't see getting a 4 door sedan that didn't get *at least* that mpg on the highway. It's my "benchmark."

Chuck

[Acre]

A co-worker had an early 90's model Honda that he still drives - VFX or VFH I think? He still has it and gets an honest 48 mpg in mixed driving.
What frustrates me is that consumer driven bigger cars with more bells and whistles + government mandates = an environment where 20 years later you need a complicated hybrid car to get the same mileage you could get in an el-cheapo basic commuter car back then. Maybe if the hangover from decades of the US living beyond its means takes decades to unwind economic forces will compel the return of such basic high mileage commuter cars. Heck today, even the Smart car - a fraction of the size of things like that early Honda or even the Geo Metro - is rated at lower mpg then those cars were.

[F8L]

Originally Posted by Acre

A co-worker had an early 90's model Honda that he still drives - VFX or VFH I think? He still has it and gets an honest 48 mpg in mixed driving.
What frustrates me is that consumer driven bigger cars with more bells and whistles + government mandates = an environment where 20 years later you need a complicated hybrid car to get the same mileage you could get in an el-cheapo basic commuter car back then. Maybe if the hangover from decades of the US living beyond its means takes decades to unwind economic forces will compel the return of such basic high mileage commuter cars. Heck today, even the Smart car - a fraction of the size of things like that early Honda or even the Geo Metro - is rated at lower mpg then those cars were.

To be fair here, those high MPG cars were tin-can death traps with a stout 49HP. lol

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by Acre

A co-worker had an early 90's model Honda that he still drives - VFX or VFH I think? He still has it and gets an honest 48 mpg in mixed driving.
What frustrates me is that consumer driven bigger cars with more bells and whistles + government mandates = an environment where 20 years later you need a complicated hybrid car to get the same mileage you could get in an el-cheapo basic commuter car back then. Maybe if the hangover from decades of the US living beyond its means takes decades to unwind economic forces will compel the return of such basic high mileage commuter cars. Heck today, even the Smart car - a fraction of the size of things like that early Honda or even the Geo Metro - is rated at lower mpg then those cars were.

CRX??

To be fair, the smart is safer than those cars you speak of. The smart also has a lot of safety equipment (TCS, ESP, ABS w/EBD, Brake Assist) as standard equipment. The smart is also more powerful LOL.

[Acre]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

CRX??

To be fair, the smart is safer than those cars you speak of. The smart also has a lot of safety equipment (TCS, ESP, ABS w/EBD, Brake Assist) as standard equipment. The smart is also more powerful LOL.

Not a CRX; starts with a "V". Has adequate power for a commuter. I wonder how many mpg a Smart car would get if it had the same acceleration curve and comparable safety equipment to those older cars (a level of performance many of us who grew up in the 70's and 8's would be happy with). Maybe close to 70?

[Tideland Prius]

V.... V... Civic VX??

Umm... it might tip over without ESP. But let's say it doesn't, and it doesn't have the reinforced steel "roll" cage, yeah probably 70mpg. i mean engines are really fuel effficient now.

Slightly off-topic but not quite, Statultra here put a Gen II NiMH battery into his Gen I Prius and noticed a marked improvement in MPG.

[Ophbalance]

The VX/HX line (maybe only the VX) were supposed to have the same lean burn technology that the first gen Insight had. They had great mileage, but weren't so great for the environment.