Rescue Workers say Hybrid Cars a Danger

[Tempus]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/a...d_car_rescues_1

Rescue Workers Say Hybrid Cars a Danger

Tue May 4, 3:04 AM ET Add Business - AP to My Yahoo!

By PATRICK WALTERS, Associated Press Writer

PHILADELPHIA - The growing popularity of hybrid vehicles is a step toward cleaner air and less dependance on gasoline. But for rescuers at accident scenes, they represent a potential new danger: a network of high-voltage circuitry that may require some precise cutting to save a trapped victim.

"You don't want to go crushing anything with hydraulic tools," said Samuel Caroluzzi, an assistant chief with the Norristown Fire Department outside Philadelphia. "It's enough to kill you from what they're telling us in training."

Hybrids draw power from two sources, typically a gas or diesel engine combined with an electric motor. The battery powering the electric motor carries as much as 500 volts, more than 40 times the strength of a standard battery.

That worries those who must cut into cars to rescue people inside.

"If you can't shut it down, you don't know where the high voltage is," said David Dalrymple, an emergency medical technician in New Brunswick, N.J.

Manufacturers have put in place a laundry list of safety checks that the car's computer must go through for the electrical system to run. They've published guides showing where the electric components are on their models; on the Toyota Prius and other hybrids, the high-power cables are colored bright orange to catch the eye of a rescue worker or a mechanic.

But there are concerns over what happens if something goes wrong and the battery, ignition and other points are inaccessible.

"It's the 'what-if' that worries me," said David Castiaux, an instructor for Mid-Del Technology Center in Del City, Okla., who teaches rescue workers about hybrids.

Chris Peterson, a service training instructor for Toyota, said the Prius' electric system should shut down if anything goes wrong. "There should not be high voltage in those cables, but I'm not going to stand up and say there isn't," he said.

First responders are taught to disconnect the battery and turn off the key immediately before cutting into a car, but that's not always possible.

"Years ago you could just cut with your extrication tools through a post, but now you have to look before you cut," said Ken Nelsen, chief of the Iselin Fire Department District 11 in Woodbridge Township, N.J. "It's just another thing you need to worry about."

When air bags started becoming more common in the 1980s, rescue workers became aware of their potential to seriously injure or kill when inflated. Those concerns have been heightened now that the safety devices are being installed in side panels, seats and other areas.

Concerns about hybrids are increasing in large part because of their growing popularity. Sales have risen at an average annual rate of 88.6 percent since 2000 and recent figures show the number of Americans driving them jumped more than 25 percent from 2002 to 2003.

The Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius are common now and more are on the way: hybrid versions of the Ford Escape, Honda Accord and Lexus SUV this year, and a Toyota Highlander in 2005.

The Alachua County Fire Rescue in Gainesville, Fla., even has two hybrids of its own. Although its crews haven't had to deal with a hybrid crash, they've been getting versed on what to do when it happens, said Cliff Chapman, assistant chief.

They know not to cut into a hybrid's doors — that's where many of the cables are — and to peel off the roof instead. They also now operate under the assumption that a car is energized, wearing rubber gloves and boots.

Manufacturers say they will continue to keep rescue personnel up to date on their hybrids. But they also contend that hybrids can be seen as safer than regular cars.

"Everybody's concerned about the electrical side, but could you imagine if we tried to bring gasoline out today as a motor fuel?" Peterson said.

[ErikS]

Yeah, there was a big discussion about this in Sweden a couple of moths ago. The firefighters went as far as telling people that they would not rescue someone in an electric car or hybrid... I think (hope ) the manufactures and the rescue personnel worked it out.

I wonder why the japanese guy who made this webpage referred to the left back seat as the suicide seat... Could it have something to do with it being close to the battery and high voltage cable running under it??

[KMO]

I think "suicide" is a duff Japanese->English translation. While using an online automatic translator to browse Toyota Japan's site I got a few suicide references. Maybe it's a bad translation of "passenger"...?

[Danny]

Normally a suicide door would be a door that opens from the front to back, opposite your standard door. Like on a truck or Saturn coupe or the new Mazda RX8.

Not sure why it's translating like that.

[Tempus]

It seems to me the author is confused here about exactly what the Hybrid Issues are:

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First responders are taught to disconnect the battery and turn off the key immediately before cutting into a car, but that's not always possible.

"Years ago you could just cut with your extrication tools through a post, but now you have to look before you cut," said Ken Nelsen, chief of the Iselin Fire Department District 11 in Woodbridge Township, N.J. "It's just another thing you need to worry about."

When air bags started becoming more common in the 1980s, rescue workers became aware of their potential to seriously injure or kill when inflated. Those concerns have been heightened now that the safety devices are being installed in side panels, seats and other areas.

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This makes it sound like there is electricity in the pillars around the roof. The issue there is Air-Bags which is far from a hybrid only problem.

You have to check in ANY car now-adays before cutting the roof off.

[bookrats]

FYI: You might want to take a look at the Toyota '04 Prius Emergency Response Guide.

It's written by Toyota specifically for emergency response workers, and has information specific to accessing the Prius safely in a crash situation.

If you're interested in the Prius' electrical systems, this is a treasure trove of info.

[rflagg]

So, my question is, who's pushing out these articles - the oil companies, or the one of the big 3, or both?

-m.

[seeh2o]

'So, my question is, who's pushing out these articles - the oil companies, or the one of the big 3, or both?'

Very good question!

[bookrats]

Not in any way to degenerate the emergency workers' concerns, or the difficulty of their jobs: But when new technologies (air bags, dual batteries, etc.) have been used in automobiles, rescue workers have had to learn to deal with them.

And they have. I suspect hybrids will be the next major thing on the horizon, assuming they catch on. (And with gas prices spiralling upwards, this seems likely). They'll deal with this like they have with past technology shifts.

Now, if emergency services were to call for standardization in how hybrid electrical systems components are labelled (or colored), and how they work in emergency situations -- that sounds to me like a very reasonable demand. Particuarly once these groups have had a chance to deal with a few more hybrids in these situations, and know what the problems are, and what they'd like to see in the future.

[drivenmore]

It's not "suicide seat". The phrase refers to the "seat behind the passenger's seat".

Sometimes my liberal-arts bachelor's degree does actully come in useful.... :P