$10 per gal gas....a cool article

[EmptyG]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 7 2006, 05:51 PM) [snapback]267588[/snapback]</div>

How many calories does the Iraq war count as?
[/b]

I think that's a little off topic, IMO. We are talking non-politics here, just about gas prices and how it could benefit or not benefit the economy. Though it's obvious that the person who wrote the SFGate article is not a fan of Bush

As long as we are off topic though, I must say your username makes me hungry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 7 2006, 05:08 PM) [snapback]267564[/snapback]</div>

Hey, it's coming. People will look back on discussions like this from the not-very-distant future and wish that gas would go back down to $10 per gallon. And I'm not talking about a "liberal" take-over of government. I'm talking about supply, demand, and the cost of production. Not so terribly long ago it took 10 or 15 calories of energy to extract 1,000 calories of petroleum. Now I think it's something like 200 calories to extract 1,000 calories. And going up. The petroleum age is coming to an end. We won't actually run out, but we'll reach the stage at which it takes more energy to extract a barrel of oil than is contained in that oil. Oil will be extracted for very high-value chemical processes, but burning it for energy will be a net loss.
[/b]

Oh no argument from me that oil is getting harder to extract. I am with you (and most people here I think) that we definitely need to step up our efforts to get independant of foreign oil to begin with, then oil in general. It's going to run out, and we need to be proactive about that.

But raising the price of gas doesn't solve this. Even if it did, it would create a slew of new issues (like mentioned above).

[EricGo]

It will wreck the economy.
No, really, it *will* wreck the economy
OK.. maybe it didn't before, but it will NOW !!
We just go LUCKY!, now, shit is going to happen
The shrub saved us up till now, but NOT A SINGLE CENT MORE !!
The economy is collapsing !!! you just cannot see it.
Go ahead and laugh. You just got lucky that alternative fuels came along to save your behind.

[Tadashi]

I just talked to a coworker who has a Avalanche. It has a 30 gal tank that he fills once a week at close to $80. Although he would like to spend my $24 a month on gas he would not be able to just switch in a day. He cannot afford to trade in a car that he just paid off.

Should he be punished for poor foresight by $10 per gal? This would not help the situation. We need to offer more incentives to R&D as well as for consumers to purchase. I think the tax credit should be based an MPG and emmissions. Also, any new vehicle should get an environmental tax based on its MPG and emmissions rating. At most $5k - $8k per vehicle. This should go to making up the cost of the incentives. Maybe offer incentives for gas guzzler trade-ins.

Here is something to think about... the Army is working on hybid combat vehicles. I think I saw it estimated that it costs as much as $110 per gal to get the fuel to the soldiers. Not to mention the problems of storage, security, enviornmental issues, manpower, etc. I wonder how long until the public will pick up on this and fully accept hybrids. How was the transition from the horse to the car?

[malorn]

Again, citing many sources, the world economy would completely collapse at between $4.00 and 4.50/gallon. In a world-wide depression, exactly what would the demand for gasoline be? It is no wonder that the US is in such a bad long-term economic situation when so many "educated" folks no so little about economics.

[naterprius]

I thought $3.00 was the price that the world economy would collapse. When it hit $3.00, everyone gasped, but they still gassed. Malorn, how many of the new 6000 pound jobs do you still sell? My guess is LOTS of them. And you wonder how gas could get to $10 a gallon.

As for economics, the instant the demand outpaces the supply, the price skyrockets. Then, demand falls. But wait, would demand fall? People would have to park their Escalades and Yukon XL's for that to happen. But, I'm sure they are still selling, and with a 17 year life span, from the moment gasoline spikes, we will have 17 years of high consumption, and spiked prices.

$10? I'm prepared for $20. It would only cost me $500 a month. I can afford it. Can most people? I suspect not.

The world economy will NOT collapse at $4, $4.50, or even $10 a gallon. Most people won't even notice, they'll just keep pumping away, $200 at a time into the SUV.

Nate

[priusenvy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 7 2006, 05:29 PM) [snapback]267575[/snapback]</div>

$10/ gallon for gasoline? Walk me through how this scenario would play out? Do you forsee a major supply disruption with no change in demand as the price goes up? Or how about a triple in demand over maybe the next year? Did you guys ever find your way to an economics class?
[/b]

Apparently you didn't, otherwise you'd know the difference between a change in demand, and movement along a demand curve. Two things that nobody who knows the slightest bit about economics would ever confuse.

[hyo silver]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EmptyG @ Jun 7 2006, 06:59 PM) [snapback]267558[/snapback]</div>

Can you elaborate? I don't really get a sense of your idea here. It sounds, on the surface, to be the same thing the SFGate guy was saying, to make companies and consumers pay more for their gas, to make them use less gas and create more fuel-efficient cars.

Am I reading that wrong?
[/b]

I was thinking of some sort of an information tag that explains the environmental impact caused by buying and using any given product. Not strictly a 'price' tag that shows how much we pay at the checkout, but a 'cost' tag that shows things like xx kg CO2 generated, xx kg fertiliser used, xx kg of particulate matter generated, that sort of thing. Similar to a energy consumption sticker on an appliance, but measuring the product's contribution to the top ten pollutants, for instance. A way to show us that the environmental costs of any given purchasing decision should be considered right along with the financial costs. We're paying both, really, but tend to think only of the financial part.

[malorn]

267723[/snapback]</div>

You are not talking about "movement" along a demand curve with $10/ gallon gas? Do you disagree that about the demand at $4.50/gallon? The economy is entering a major slow-down]
I thought $3.00 was the price that the world economy would collapse. When it hit $3.00, everyone gasped, but they still gassed. Malorn, how many of the new 6000 pound jobs do you still sell? My guess is LOTS of them. And you wonder how gas could get to $10 a gallon.

As for economics, the instant the demand outpaces the supply, the price skyrockets. Then, demand falls. But wait, would demand fall? People would have to park their Escalades and Yukon XL's for that to happen. But, I'm sure they are still selling, and with a 17 year life span, from the moment gasoline spikes, we will have 17 years of high consumption, and spiked prices.

$10? I'm prepared for $20. It would only cost me $500 a month. I can afford it. Can most people? I suspect not.

The world economy will NOT collapse at $4, $4.50, or even $10 a gallon. Most people won't even notice, they'll just keep pumping away, $200 at a time into the SUV.

Nate
[/b]

You think the world economy would still function even reasonably the same with $10/gallon gas? The economy is slowing right as we speak, and no we are nobody is selling as many big suv's, trucks including your beloved Toyota.

[daronspicher]

The thing that always leaves me scratching my head about this kind of conversation is this:

Why don't the liberal tree huggers live today as if this kind of thing were happening in the world. Why do they need all of society to be tranformed into what is being discussed in this email before they can stop driving their cars.

In fact, there are a lot of you around here. Why are you driving your Prius's? Sell them and get 1 more car off the road so that our congestion is less and so gas guzzling cars don't have to do so much bunch-n-go in traffic. Every one of you preach this message, but none of you is living it to any extreme.

Why are you all waiting for the entire society to be forced to it before you start it yourself?

[malorn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jun 8 2006, 07:45 AM) [snapback]267794[/snapback]</div>

The thing that always leaves me scratching my head about this kind of conversation is this:

Why don't the liberal tree huggers live today as if this kind of thing were happening in the world. Why do they need all of society to be tranformed into what is being discussed in this email before they can stop driving their cars.

In fact, there are a lot of you around here. Why are you driving your Prius's? Sell them and get 1 more car off the road so that our congestion is less and so gas guzzling cars don't have to do so much bunch-n-go in traffic. Every one of you preach this message, but none of you is living it to any extreme.

Why are you all waiting for the entire society to be forced to it before you start it yourself?
[/b]

I know many of the folks you are talking about very well. They seem to have an inherent guilt about living on the planet and using ANY "unsustainable" resources(some of them any resources period). I don't think they will ever be happy until man no longer exists on earth, then and only then will man not be destroying the earth.

When the environmental movement loses that preachy tone and is more realistic in its message and its politics will it gain the momentum it deserves.