Why no hybrid RAV4?

[ken1784]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jul 4 2006, 10:22 AM) [snapback]280724[/snapback]</div>

I was still doing 45 - 50 mpg in a Prius *without* using its hybrid
capability.[/b]

You were driving a hybrid vehicle and it's ICE, MG1 and MG2 combination were working together to drive your vehicle.

Ken@Japan

[M. Oiseau]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ Jul 3 2006, 08:52 PM) [snapback]280779[/snapback]</div>

You were driving a hybrid vehicle and it's ICE, MG1 and MG2 combination were working together to drive your vehicle.

Ken@Japan
[/b]

I agree. The "most significant" components of the Prius driving techniques would not exist without HSD.

Ken is always right.

[chogan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jul 3 2006, 08:22 PM) [snapback]280724[/snapback]</div>

I would caution that a hybrid powerplant, while it certainly helps
FE and boosts fun factor, is not the magic bullet -- per my recent
experiment, http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1302
I was still doing 45 - 50 mpg in a Prius *without* using its hybrid
capability. One must also take driving technique into consideration.
.
_H*
[/b]

Excellent thread, I particularly agreed with the comment that about changing the laws regarding coasting in neutral. But I read your thread and came away with a completely different conclusion than I got from your post. It's like you delivered the punchline without the wind-up. The punchline is 40 mpg. But the windup was that you were getting 80 taking advantage of the hybrid features. So, beyond Ken's comment, what I came away with is that you cut your mileage in half by overriding the hybrid features.

But point taken: driving a car gently is good gas-saving strategy, and you can get better, maybe even decent mileage, in a straight gas car if you work at it.

What about the RAV4? The best-mileage 2007 RAV4 gets EPA 26 overall, per www.fueleconomy.gov My father-in-law drives, well, like a old man, and in the smaller 2005 he doesn't come close to 26. It's not a very aerodynamic car. EPA lists no manual transmission 2007, but even so, maybe if you drove the automatic gently enough you could squeeze decent milage out of it. But the average person driving a straight-gas RAV4 2WD 4 cylinder automatic is likely to get something in the low 20's overall. I'd say the median self-reported milage was about 23 here:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/rav4...v4-gas-mileage/

Of course, people tend to report when mileage is good, so ... I don't know. Haven't seen anybody report 30 overall for that car.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(M. Oiseau @ Jan 10 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]373807[/snapback]</div>

Ken is always right.
[/b]

I'll go with "often." I mean, sometimes he disagrees with ME!

[Duffer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clintd555 @ Jul 2 2006, 04:05 PM) [snapback]280213[/snapback]</div>

I've been considering the Prius now for quite sometime. But now I'm thinking it will be more practical for me to buy a compact SUV rather than another 4 door car. I already have a Jetta.

Any news on Toyota or Honda even making a compact SUV? Yesterday (just for kicks) I test drove a Suzuki Vitara... I'm passing. The Vitara only gets 24 MPG while the RAV4 gets up to 30 which is about the same I get in my Jetta <_<

Has anyone bought a Prius INSTEAD of a compact SUV? If so, why? And how are you living with the space... or lack thereof?
[/b]

Last October my wife needed an SUV to travel 70-150mi a day for work. Her Grand Cherokee was long in the tooth. She suprised me by showing interest in an 07' RAV4. I new nothing about the redesigned RAV4 when I went to test drive one. I tested a fwd model and loved it! Lots of people room as we are not small people, plenty of head room, easy to get in and out of. We bought a base model AWD with only a couple options not on the well thought out standard list. 22-23mpg from the 4 cylinder engine was a relief from 14-16 in the Jeep.
When I looked at a new vehicle I thought about a fwd RAV4 but to have 2 in the driveway was well.... I wanted great gas milage and had a different outlook on needs and apparent safety of vehicles. I have ridden motorcycles for 25yrs so putting metal around me was a big step up! The Prius had room that most of the Toyota car line lacked. The 43mpg of the first 2 tanks through my 07' Prius that we bought Jan 2 is a big step up from my 04' Sebring at 21mpg in mixed driving. Basically I have better mpg than my motorcycle, when it rains I put my windows up, when it is cold and snows I turn on the heat and go. So far a great car.

[David Beale]

I'm finding this thread, while old, very interesting. Just before Christmas the anti-Prius was badly damaged when a woman turned left in front of me. While waiting for the insurance co. to decide what to do, I did some research.

It seems the new Honda CR-V gets pretty good mileage, even in non-hybrid form. If you want to stick to an "SUV" (I prefer "four wheel drive station wagon" - there's nothing sporty about a 3500+lb high vehicle), it seems like a good candidate at a reasonable price.

The anti-Prius is being repaired - $6200 damage. The womans car, a Ford Escort, was a writeoff, as would be expected. Luckly no-one was hurt. A low speed (50 km/hr) collision. Basically I took the front off the Escort - right to the rad.

Still wondering how the Prius would do here in Edmonton. Today we are recovering from the blizzard of yesterday. It was -18 C with 70 km/hr winds and 10 cm of snow. NOT FUN! Today it's -28 C, sunny and crisp! So you see why I'm hesitant to move out of "SUV" vehicles. The Highlander Hybrid gets about the same mileage as the CR-V. There isn't much difference in size that I could see comparing them. The Highlander is 600 lbs heavier and about 30% more expensive.

[Tideland Prius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Beale @ Jan 11 2007, 09:19 AM) [snapback]374141[/snapback]</div>

I'm finding this thread, while old, very interesting. Just before Christmas the anti-Prius was badly damaged when a woman turned left in front of me. While waiting for the insurance co. to decide what to do, I did some research.

It seems the new Honda CR-V gets pretty good mileage, even in non-hybrid form. If you want to stick to an "SUV" (I prefer "four wheel drive station wagon" - there's nothing sporty about a 3500+lb high vehicle), it seems like a good candidate at a reasonable price.

The anti-Prius is being repaired - $6200 damage. The womans car, a Ford Escort, was a writeoff, as would be expected. Luckly no-one was hurt. A low speed (50 km/hr) collision. Basically I took the front off the Escort - right to the rad.

Still wondering how the Prius would do here in Edmonton. Today we are recovering from the blizzard of yesterday. It was -18 C with 70 km/hr winds and 10 cm of snow. NOT FUN! Today it's -28 C, sunny and crisp! So you see why I'm hesitant to move out of "SUV" vehicles. The Highlander Hybrid gets about the same mileage as the CR-V. There isn't much difference in size that I could see comparing them. The Highlander is 600 lbs heavier and about 30% more expensive.
[/b]

I've seen one or two Priuses up in Edmonton two years ago when the Prius-II was just launched. There are a few resident Albertans here which could chime in (I hope).

Or you can just listen to jayman complain about Winnipeg weather lol.

[bsoft]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jul 3 2006, 06:22 PM) [snapback]280724[/snapback]</div>

I would caution that a hybrid powerplant, while it certainly helps
FE and boosts fun factor, is not the magic bullet -- per my recent
experiment, http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1302
I was still doing 45 - 50 mpg in a Prius *without* using its hybrid
capability. One must also take driving technique into consideration.
.
_H*
[/b]

That's not possible in the Prius. You can certainly try to "fight" the system in the Prius (I've gotten ~30MPG over 30 miles of city driving in the winter this way), but there is no way to drive the Prius "without" its hybrid system.

It's arguable that you could do it in a Civic Hybrid, but, if you could get the ICE started without the IMA system and get the computer to shut up, it's certainly within the realm of possibility.

The Prius, however, can only be in one of two modes without the HSD system - neutral or park. Without MG1 and MG2 working together, it is impossible to start the engine, and, even if you could, meaningful power from the ICE will never reach the wheels (MG1 will turn rapidly backwards, countering any motion of the ICE).

HSD is the starter, the alternator, and the transmission for the Prius. The car cannot move without at least MG1 or MG2 (usually both), and it can't move very far without MG1. It's theoretically possible to operate the vehicle without the battery pack (e.g. by locking MG1 using power from MG2), but you would have trouble accelerating, there would be no regen, and you wouldn't be able to start the ICE. Of course, the computer won't let you do it anyway.

So, no, you didn't operate a Prius without the hybrid system. You can stop the ICE from shutting off (max heat, for example), you can avoid regen, and you can try to drain the battery. But you cannot escape the fact that the HV system - including the battery - is still doing its best to optimize energy usage.

The Prius is not an electric vehicle that has an ICE. Nor is it a conventional ICE vehicle with additional electirc power and efficiency optimizations (like the Civic Hybrid). It is a new design, that combines the ICE with electric motors to replace most of the components of a conventional transmission and engine system.

(FYI - This is why the Prius is so hard to steal. You need to convince the various computers to power on for the vehicle to go anywhere, which, IIRC, requires hacking the CAN bus. Good luck with that one.)

[hobbit]

The techniques for "non-hybrid" driving were well-described in the
cleanmpg thread, which I suggest you might actually go READ.
.
_H*

[daveleeprius]

I don't get it...

Nonetheless, the Prius didn't do too badly as a non-hybrid car,
and in fact returned results right in line with what a lot of
drivers get for their *normal* mileage. That's ironic as hell.

With about 160 miles on the tank and just barely down one pip
on the gauge, I probably covered about 40 miles in "stupid mode"
and arrived back home just over 200 miles. That pulled my
average from 67-ish at the peak down to 63.7 at the end.
[/b]

Umm, I don't think you can disable the hybrid-ness (if you were) of the Prius. Putting it in neutral I know how to do. Using the physical brakes, not possible unless you're only using the brakes going less than 5mph (or you're using the e-brake only). And you must live in flat land with no hills to get 63.7mpg!

When I drive my Prius, I don't stress if I have to crank the heat and the engine doesn't stop, or if I have to gun it to get around an idiot on the freeway. I drive this car like I drive any other car. And I love it. And my average milage over nearly 2,000 miles is still 42.5mpg. And I am surrounded by hills here.

Dave