Prius Myths and their Rebuttals

[oxnardprof]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wolflady @ Jan 26 2007, 07:57 PM) [snapback]381440[/snapback]</div>

http://www.andykerr.net/Energy/Kerr_Hybrid.pdf

The above article by Andy Kerr in Home Power magazine really convinced me to make my Prius purchase when I was running the numbers. Of course the numbers weren't everything, but I had to be armed and dangerous for those people who just can't fathom the economics. I've attached a copy of the spreadsheet. His article busts many of the myths about Hybrids.
[/b]

I like the spreadsheet also. I did not notice a benefit in California, at least: no smog checks are required.
This is a savings in time and money.

I did not understand why there was a savings on oil changes compared to similar vehicles.

[Bear68]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Dec 4 2006, 12:46 PM) [snapback]357433[/snapback]</div>

Your futility was well confirmed :^)
[/b]

I like Facts. I am a Toyota Tech and I am Prius Certified.

Fact 1. First Gen Prius had a recall (Toyota likes to call them Special Service Campaigns or SSC's) We were resealing the HV battery and replacing the bus bars. In the opinion of every tech I have spoken with and my own opinion, the biggest bunch of BS I have seen in a long time. I worked on many with well over 100k. Since then I have had to replace only 1 first gen HV batt. Toyota covered it under warranty at 120k miles.

Fact 2. In my dealership, we have replaced about a half dozen HV batterys between ALL three Hybrid models. (Just a little bragging here, for the month of Feb we were the number 3 Prius seller in the nation. Cali dealers get a bigger allotment due to their emmissions regs. The owner of my dealership LOVES Hybrid technology.) BTW all of those HV's were under warranty.

Fact 3. Several sources including J.D. Power rate the Prius as being the most trouble free car onthe road bar none.

Fact 4. The number one concern customers seem to have is that they don't get the mileage they feel they should. I love these. I request to drive the car home over night and the next day, I show them 50- 60 mpg on the MFD. Then I explain to them how to pretend there is an egg under the gas pedal and the brake pedal. Most learn it quickly and get much better results after that.

[BVISAILMAN]

The facts regarding the Prius stated in the article are erroneous or possibly even made up. First of all they compare a hummer at 300,000 and the Prius at 100,000? Life of the Prius they claim to be 100,000 when the spark plugs are not scheduled for their first changes until 120,000. Apples and Oranges.

The cost of sending the nickel all over the world? Several containers on a large container ship that is visiting those ports anyway is a lame excuse to bash a Prius Maybe we need Hybrid Ships.

Battery replacement cost? Toyota has not yet had to replace ONE Hybrid battery pack because of failure since they first started to make the car in 1997 in Japan. More costly to repair, I''ve got 20,000 mile on my 2007 and not ONE single defect. Safety? The Prius is in Fact Safer than the Hummer if you order the prius with the side airbags it has a 5 star rating.

There is a photo somewhere on this chat that shows a Prius that was hit head on by a larger car and the Prius passenger compartment was in tact and in fact all four doors opened. The other car needed it's door cut to get the occupants out.

With all leg room front and rear, the Prius is not classified as a Compact car. It has more front and rear leg room than my Lexus GS 300 had.

No one mentions the Prius hold less oil than most cars thus saving all that toxic waste. My BMW used to hold 8 quarts of oil.

People that want to bash the Prius will always bend the facts and make mistatements to aid their cause. The fact remains that the Prius is good for the environment, it is efficient and I for one cannot think of any other car that comes as close to making the EPA published MPG as the Prius does. We typically get low to mid 50's in commuting to Boston every day and high 40's for truly highway driving. We have reached 61 MPG on several tanks.

I say ignore these people who have their headsin the sand. I'm sure they are the same one's that think global warming is a Myth.

[acdii]

I have a fact that although not Prius, it does state claim to helping reduce emissions. It is a document regarding Bio Diesel emissions, mainly in rebuttal to Jayman. I diesel car running on Bio diesel will in fact meet of exceed the emissions of a Prius, provided the diesel engine has the proper filters and catalysts on it to reduce Nox emissions. I havent found CO2 claims on bio D yet though, but the fact stands, Bio helps reduce overall emissions tremendously. One thing in regards to CO2 and BIO D is its CO2 neutral due to the amount of CO2 produced is less than or equal to the amount of CO2 absorbed by the plants which it comes from. Need to locate that fact though, havent seen it in awhile.

Emissions PDF

ANother myth busted, "there arent that many of them on the road".
I hate to say it, but before I bought the Prius, I didn't even know what they looked like, now I see them all over the place. As with any car production, they arent going to flood the market with a newly designed car until they see what the sales figures will be, then and only then will they ramp up production to meet their expected sales figures. With gas @$3 a gallon now, more people will buy, and soon there will be more on the road than ever before.

Case in point, when I went to test drive my car, I didnt go to buy, just see what the car was like. I saw the dealers web site the previous Saturday and it was advertising special financing of 0% on the prius and they had 8 in stock. On Monday, my wife had 5 minute contractions, took her to the hospital, expecting that our son would soon be born, well, doc came in said, go home, you're not in labor, go walk the mall or something. So we scooted off to the dealership that I saw the ad on, and asked to test drive a Prius. Sales guy comes back and said they sold them all on Saturday. 8 cars in one day, gone, and they were all the package #2 and up. He double checked and they did have one left, it had just come off the truck. I was the first person to drive it off the lot, in fact during the test drive I smelled the oil burning off the exhaust system. They sold me the car that day, and I wasnt planning to buy. I liked the car, and was impressed with its roominess having experience with the Honda Insight, the other Hybrid I used to drive. I think once more people check out the Prius and realize it isnt a little sh**box that people think, more will sell.

I would say that debunks the myth. "there arent that many of them on the road"


BTW she gave birth the next day.

EDIT: From the EPA

EPA research shows that biodiesel reduces most emissions
from unmodified diesel engines (see chart). The amount
that emissions are reduced depends on the blend level.
For example, B100 produced from soybean oil reduces
life cycle CO2 emissions by 78% compared to petroleum
diesel. This effect is linear with blend level so a B5 blend
reduces life cycle CO2 emissions by 3.8%. Low-level
blends will also cause small reductions in emissions of
hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, particulate matter, and
harmful air toxics.[/b]

Source

[R1200GS]

i heard a part of an interview on NPR, Talk of the Nation, regarding bio fuel and that they are really no cleaner overall then fossil fuels... anyone else here this, basicaly stating that this is not the answer.

question. Does the Prius use coal in its electric motor? If so what type of quantities are we talking about? i heard this from a friend.
Thanks

[MegansPrius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(R1200GS @ May 3 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]435003[/snapback]</div>

i heard a part of an interview on NPR, Talk of the Nation, regarding bio fuel and that they are really no cleaner overall then fossil fuels... anyone else here this, basicaly stating that this is not the answer.

question. Does the Prius use coal in its electric motor? If so what type of quantities are we talking about? i heard this from a friend.
Thanks
[/b]

You mean haven't noticed the guy with a shovel flinging it into the boiler in the back? Or was that only on the first gen Prii?

[R1200GS]

Ha! yeah um no. i was assuming it meant to conduct or generate electricty. i'm not familiar with electric motors and what makes them tick. ICE is pretty well known. gas air spark pressure explosion moves pistons valves open and close letting air in and exhaust out etc. etc. how does an electric motor work? when said friend mentioned coal i was taken aback(SP?) but thought well maybe it conducts or stores electricity or has some atomic properties that make it useful in an electric motor to drive some process. i dont know, pardon my ignorance. if this is a stupid question a simple "no" would suffice. maybe my friend thought the car had to be plugged in which means it does run on coal in some form. topic for another discussin

[MegansPrius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(R1200GS @ May 3 2007, 05:09 PM) [snapback]435037[/snapback]</div>

Ha! yeah um no. i was assuming it meant to conduct or generate electricty. i'm not familiar with electric motors and what makes them tick. ICE is pretty well known. gas air spark pressure explosion moves pistons valves open and close letting air in and exhaust out etc. etc. how does an electric motor work? when said friend mentioned coal i was taken aback(SP?) but thought well maybe it conducts or stores electricity or has some atomic properties that make it useful in an electric motor to drive some process. i dont know, pardon my ignorance. if this is a stupid question a simple "no" would suffice. maybe my friend thought the car had to be plugged in which means it does run on coal in some form. topic for another discussin
[/b]

Stores electricity is the key. The car uses the Internal Combustion Engine (or ICE) to charge the hybrid battery pack (in addition to other things like recovering energy from braking or while cruising). The electric motor then runs off the energy in that battery.

Wiki explains it with a good deal more detail and accuracy than the oversimplication of the above sentence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive

Toyota also has a very splashy website with lots of pdf files about it all if you've got a reasonably fast internet connection:
http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/

[DaveSheremata]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(R1200GS @ May 3 2007, 06:09 PM) [snapback]435037[/snapback]</div>

Ha! yeah um no. i was assuming it meant to conduct or generate electricty. i'm not familiar with electric motors and what makes them tick. ICE is pretty well known. gas air spark pressure explosion moves pistons valves open and close letting air in and exhaust out etc. etc. how does an electric motor work? when said friend mentioned coal i was taken aback(SP?) but thought well maybe it conducts or stores electricity or has some atomic properties that make it useful in an electric motor to drive some process. i dont know, pardon my ignorance. if this is a stupid question a simple "no" would suffice. maybe my friend thought the car had to be plugged in which means it does run on coal in some form. topic for another discussin
[/b]

Electirc motors in particular, independent of Toyota's HSD? Well, there are few different flavours - but this article at HowStuffWorks.com is a pretty good overview of electric motors in general:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/motor.htm

Great site all around, really.

Cheers!

Dave

[R1200GS]

Perfect. thanks dave i think this is good info for people to know. electric motors are kind of a mystery to a lot of people including myself. looks like this is what i was looking for.