Prius truly green?

[bredekamp]

Hi all. Lately I have seen articles and the like that claims that the Prius is not really as green as everyone believes. Apparently it comes down to how much energy it takes to build a Prius.

To build a conventional car:
Total CO2 to build components and assemble them = x tons

To build a Prius:
Total CO2 to build components and assemble them = (x + y) tons

How long does it take to make up for the y tons of CO2 above? How much is y? Does anyone have any data?

The Prius emit much less CO2 than a conventional car - FACT
How long should one use a Prius to win back the extra CO2 emitted (if any) during manufacture? - UNKNOWN

What steps do Toyota Japan take to clean up their factories? Do they supplement their power systems at the factory with renewables? How green is Toyotas' operations?

Anybody know?

Thanks

[malorn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Albertus @ Feb 28 2007, 08:23 AM) [snapback]397762[/snapback]</div>

Hi all. Lately I have seen articles and the like that claims that the Prius is not really as green as everyone believes. Apparently it comes down to how much energy it takes to build a Prius.

To build a conventional car:
Total CO2 to build components and assemble them = x tons

To build a Prius:
Total CO2 to build components and assemble them = (x + y) tons

How long does it take to make up for the y tons of CO2 above? How much is y? Does anyone have any data?

The Prius emit much less CO2 than a conventional car - FACT
How long should one use a Prius to win back the extra CO2 emitted (if any) during manufacture? - UNKNOWN

What steps do Toyota Japan take to clean up their factories? Do they supplement their power systems at the factory with renewables? How green is Toyotas' operations?

Anybody know?

Thanks
[/b]

Don't forget about the energy used and the CO2 released to transport the Prius across the Pacific Ocean. Last time I checked those transport vessels consumed diesel fuel by the ton.

[Chuck.]

Someone more familiar than I can point you to threads that indicate the "dust to dust" lifecycle of a Prius is greener than a conventional car. Art Spinella of CNW Research has been spreading misinformation that a Prius is dirtier than a Hummer because of the batteries - they are as one put it - "an opinion for hire".

Far more nickel is used for steel than batteries on hybrids. NiMH batteries are less toxic than lead acid. Comsumer electrioncis and cell phones use NiHM batteries more than hybrids.

[bredekamp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 28 2007, 04:26 PM) [snapback]397767[/snapback]</div>

Don't forget about the energy used and the CO2 released to transport the Prius across the Pacific Ocean. Last time I checked those transport vessels consumed diesel fuel by the ton.
[/b]

Exactly!

[Chuck.]

Albertus,

It seems kind of odd yesterday you were asking about keeping your Prius cool in the sun ( http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=3...mp;#entry397216 ), then make these posts - are you going to sell your Prius?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 28 2007, 08:26 AM) [snapback]397767[/snapback]</div>

Don't forget about the energy used and the CO2 released to transport the Prius across the Pacific Ocean. Last time I checked those transport vessels consumed diesel fuel by the ton.
[/b]

This is an interesting implication: you mean transporting a Prius from Yokahama to Seattle emitts more CO2 than if it was a Corolla or Tacoma? Maybe more than an Chevy Aveo from S Korea?

[bredekamp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 28 2007, 04:37 PM) [snapback]397776[/snapback]</div>

This is an interesting implication: you mean transporting a Prius from Yokahama to Seattle emitts more CO2 than if it was a Corolla or Tacoma? Maybe more than an Chevy Aveo from S Korea?
[/b]

Not necessarily. The heavier the car, the more fuel a container ship would use. I would guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong) a 1 ton car would take a fixed amount of energy to move from Yokohama to Seatle. Considering the Prius emits less CO2 than a Corolla, the Prius would be better able to compensate.

[iaowings]

Don’t forget all the huge suv’s and big trucks. All that material doesn’t waist anything wile making the huge vehicle. We all know that a diesel F350 is way greener in stop and go traffic than a prius because after all it didn’t use as much co2 to make it and you don’t have to dispose of the toxic batteries when the truck is no longer wanted. So lets all go out and get ourselves some big giant trucks. I almost forgot the v12 twin turbo luxury vehicles from Germany they are more green than the prius too.

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Albertus @ Feb 28 2007, 10:41 AM) [snapback]397778[/snapback]</div>

Not necessarily. The heavier the car, the more fuel a container ship would use. I would guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong) a 1 ton car would take a fixed amount of energy to move from Yokohama to Seatle. Considering the Prius emits less CO2 than a Corolla, the Prius would be better able to compensate.
[/b]

Um... boats aren't necessarily like cars, and the energy usage isn't really as impacted by the weight of cargo as a tractor trailer would be.

For instance, the amount of energy to transport a 4-Runner or Sequoia is probably not much more than the energy required to transport a Prius.

Now if you look at the case of a (SULEV) Highlander Hybrid, and compare it to a (PZEV) Ford Escape Hybrid, the FEH has a much lesser environmental impact over it's lifetime. Probably even greater than realized when you factor in how... lax... the Japanese government is with enforcing plant emissions.

[bredekamp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Feb 28 2007, 04:51 PM) [snapback]397784[/snapback]</div>

Um... boats aren't necessarily like cars, and the energy usage isn't really as impacted by the weight of cargo as a tractor trailer would be.

For instance, the amount of energy to transport a 4-Runner or Sequoia is probably not much more than the energy required to transport a Prius.

Now if you look at the case of a (SULEV) Highlander Hybrid, and compare it to a (PZEV) Ford Escape Hybrid, the FEH has a much lesser environmental impact over it's lifetime. Probably even greater than realized when you factor in how... lax... the Japanese government is with enforcing plant emissions.
[/b]

Before we get ourselves tied up into knots here, can anyone direct us to a scientific study of some kind? Something to settle the argument. Is the Prius greener than a big'ol SUV or not? Taking into acount lifetime CO2 emissions.

My guess is it IS greener, but show me the beef/figures.

[Chuck.]

In the foreseeable future, cars are going to be transported by conventional means by all automakers.

Just in case, Toyota is not responsibile for the greeness of the transports or airliners - at least not until greener alternatives surface.