My Prius needs a battery, Toyota denies warranty due to EV button

PriusDiver

Has anyone looked at the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act or other laws in place for warranty protection with "unauthorized" modifications?

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../warranty.shtm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

It may not be exactly the same, but figure they could make the same claim for any after market part. There is still a burden of proof that your modification lead to the failure.

Here is K&N's interpretation: http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm

It is ridiculous that Toyota made a stink out of it. The button doesn't modify anything, it just tells the computer to activate a software mode that already exists.

jk450

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(diamondlarry @ Aug 5 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]490979[/snapback]</div>Dunno why. It's logical, it's true, and it's common knowledge in the automotive world. ECUs are always programmed to given emissions standards. California-spec ECUs have different programming than Federal ECUs. At times, even the hardware is different.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(diamondlarry @ Aug 5 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]490979[/snapback]</div>Because it's easier to disable it than take it out. Why should Toyota build a different HV ECU with missing pins when they can just eliminate a bit of wiring? Remember, this is a mass-produced vehicle designed to produce some sort of a profit, not a hand-built one-off.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(diamondlarry @ Aug 5 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]490979[/snapback]</div>There's no need to do that if it's been disabled otherwise.

Oh, wait - look, there's a blank plate where the EV button should go. Hey, why doesn't Toyota stop using their current dash molds, and design a completely different mold for the US Prius; one that doesn't need a blanking plate?

Get it?

jk450

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(diamondlarry @ Aug 5 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]490979[/snapback]</div>Dunno why. It's logical, it's true, and it's common knowledge in the automotive world. ECUs are always programmed to given emissions standards. California-spec ECUs have different programming than Federal ECUs. At times, even the hardware is different.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(diamondlarry @ Aug 5 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]490979[/snapback]</div>Because it's easier to disable it than take it out. Why should Toyota build a different HV ECU with missing pins when they can just eliminate a bit of wiring? Remember, this is a mass-produced vehicle designed to produce some sort of a profit, not a hand-built one-off.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(diamondlarry @ Aug 5 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]490979[/snapback]</div>There's no need to do that if it's been disabled otherwise.

Oh, wait - look, there's a blank plate where the EV button should go. Hey, why doesn't Toyota stop using their current dash molds, and design a completely different mold for the US Prius; one that doesn't need a blanking plate?

Get it?

prius2go

Over here in the UK where the EV button is fitted, it drops out of EV mode at about 30mph
which is annoying as the main limits are 30mph

In the US where the EV button is not fitted as standard, the drop out appears to be - is it 34mph

Maybe that's why there may be warranty anomolies
The battery may not be ok with the extra EV use

prius2go

Over here in the UK where the EV button is fitted, it drops out of EV mode at about 30mph
which is annoying as the main limits are 30mph

In the US where the EV button is not fitted as standard, the drop out appears to be - is it 34mph

Maybe that's why there may be warranty anomolies
The battery may not be ok with the extra EV use

tochatihu

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Sep 12 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]511146[/snapback]</div>Any sourced info that any Prius ECU is different (hard or soft) in any of its markets would be unique and undoubtedly welcomed. We love to learn!

The US emissions implications of the NHW20 EV button was actually covered quite well by Kristian Damkier 19 October 2004 in the Yahoo Prius-2G group. Message # 20928 for the curious.

Prius2go, while studying up for this matter I got the impression that the difference you mention may relate to a 'conservative' speedometer setup for EU regs. And no (as likely clear from context), this would not be the sort of ECU reprog I alluded to above.

Golly, sometimes it seems that we have been doing all this for a really long time. Prius 10th birthday 10th December (covered elsewhere).

__________________
DAS
Tochatihu, the Hopi hummingbird kachina

tochatihu

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Sep 12 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]511146[/snapback]</div>Any sourced info that any Prius ECU is different (hard or soft) in any of its markets would be unique and undoubtedly welcomed. We love to learn!

The US emissions implications of the NHW20 EV button was actually covered quite well by Kristian Damkier 19 October 2004 in the Yahoo Prius-2G group. Message # 20928 for the curious.

Prius2go, while studying up for this matter I got the impression that the difference you mention may relate to a 'conservative' speedometer setup for EU regs. And no (as likely clear from context), this would not be the sort of ECU reprog I alluded to above.

Golly, sometimes it seems that we have been doing all this for a really long time. Prius 10th birthday 10th December (covered elsewhere).

Frank Hudon

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Sep 12 2007, 01:50 AM) [snapback]511146[/snapback]</div>All Prius sold in NA are Cal emission certified even the ones sold in Canada.

Frank Hudon

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Sep 12 2007, 01:50 AM) [snapback]511146[/snapback]</div>All Prius sold in NA are Cal emission certified even the ones sold in Canada.

Winston

In my mind it seems pretty clear why Toyota does not want to warrant a Prius with an EV switch in the US. Here is my reasoning.

1. One of the main worries of US customers is that the batteries will wear out, necessitating an expensive replacement.
2. The more that you charge-discharge (cycle) the battery the quicker it will wear out. Toyota has done a lot of things to increase battery life in the Prius. Mainly they restricted the battery charge range to 40-80 percent, and the computer actually tries to keep it in the middle.
3. Using the EV switch can cause you to increase the level of charge-discharge when driving the prius. That WILL make the battery wear out a bit sooner. It won't make it fail right away, but the batteries life WILL be reduced.
4. By trying to deny warranty coverage on cars with EV switches, fewer people will install the switches. Thus, overall, Prius batteries will last longer. ie. longer "mean time between failure" (MTBF).
5. The fewer Prius batteries that fail, the better reputation the Prius car has.

My 02.