My Prius needs a battery, Toyota denies warranty due to EV button

mcbrunnhilde

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FiftyOneMPG @ Jul 28 2007, 02:21 AM) [snapback]486614[/snapback]</div>I thought it was more a factor of retaining the AT-PZEV rating. If the catalytic converter cools off, it's not as efficient. That's why there's a mandatory warmup period when you first turn on the car. The HiHy is probably only rated as SULEV, and countries outside of the US don't have the same emissions standards. Perhaps when the EPA devises tests specifically for hybrids they can average in the tiny increase in emissions from a cooled-off cat with the amount of time the car runs on battery alone....

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Pat
2004 Salsa #7/AM "Gracie"

darelldd

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 28 2007, 12:25 AM) [snapback]486607[/snapback]</div>And yet by federal law, they can't make that call.

Frank Hudon

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 28 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]486772[/snapback]</div>yet Nate's only recourse was to initiate legal action. Or knuckle under. Maybe he should have asked the PriusChat community what to do and who would have put their money where their mouth is. Want to guess the percentage. Yup that's about what I thought. 4% maybe 5%. It's called the law of attrition and corps use it all the time. Maybe the Sierra Leagle fund would like to take up that challange. I'm sure even they could see the benifite to the enviroment. Afterall it's not like ripping out the bladder which some have suggested.

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You can quote me on this, People who drive vehicles that idle at a traffic light, are idiots.

mine 2k3 avg. 5.36 for 46,915Km Best tank 4.4L per 100K 64.2 Imperial 53.4 U.S. gallon, MiniScanner, SilverStars, block heater, winter lips, in as of Oct 15, out on April 25. In again on Sept. 21st.

her's 2k4 "B" avg. 6.01 for 42,317 Km Best tank 4.02L per 100K, CAN-view with OBD11 module and flashloader, SilverStars, 06 Chrome grill bar, Michelin HydroEdge, upper and lower grill blocker,upper out as of April 7, lower out on April 28. In again on Sept 21st.

diamondlarry

This certainly does sound like a case of corporate bullying. If the EV switch mod won't allow EV at anything over 34 mph or at a SoC below 3-4 bars, it is actually safer for the battery than not having it. By feathering the pedal I can actually run EV at 2-3 bars or have been on EV as high as 40 mph when the SoC was high enough. It seems that Toyota forgot about the Magnuson-Moss(sp?)Act that says that a manufacturer must prove that a modification caused the reported problem. I'd also bet that there would be some lawyer somewhere that would take the case for free since it would be an easy win and a great way to increase his reputation.

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Best tank: 101.1 mpg over 867.4 miles from 8/9/08-9/6/08
Longest tank: 1184.2 miles from 6/15/09-7/13/09

"Fear exists for one purpose: to be conqured!"-Catherine Janeway

ttr479

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 19 2007, 08:26 PM) [snapback]482026[/snapback]</div>Well, darn--I was all ready to install the momentary ev switch (using an easily removable method), but now I'm not so sure. If I ever go in for service, would just pulling out the switch keep a dealer from getting upset, or are there DTCs that might show up from using ev mode? If so, can these codes be cleared with a regular OBD2 tool, or would it have to be the Toyota scantool?

Thanks,

Tom

hobbit

No such codes exist, even in the "operational history" parameters,
that I can detect either in the service manual or in fairly extensive
exploring with a Mastertech. It's bullying, plain and simple.
.
_H*

bruceha_2000

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(diamondlarry @ Jul 29 2007, 07:12 AM) [snapback]487025[/snapback]</div>I've seen my car run for 20 seconds on EV at 60 MPH using CC down hill on the interstate. This is normal operation based on whatever the programming uses for inputs (battery SOC, demand for energy, ICE temp, whatever else). The only requirement over 42 MPH is that the ICE must be TURNING, it doesn't have to be FIRING. As many others have stated, the programming decides when to allow EV and when not to allow it. Battery too hot? No EV. Too cold? No EV. SOC too low? No EV, 'big power' demand? No EV

I agree with those that say the only potential problem is 'voiding' the AT-PZEV rating. At BEST that would make the car 'illegal' if it had some special status BECAUSE it is AT_PZEV. Convincing people that they shouldn't install an EV switch because it might invalidate the warranty is a lot easier than figuring out whether any individual vehicle is no longer achieving AT_PZEV due to the use of an EV switch. Frankly, I find that a hard arguement to swallow anyway. If I skate in the morning, my route to work includes a 1 mile nearly dead flat 25 MPH stretch. If I'm gentle on the pedal the entire 1 mile is EV and THE CAR IS DOING IT, NOT ME! This does NOT work in the winter when you need heat.

I say both 'reasons' are bogus and the problem is related to either the battery being less than stellar to start with or some damage done to the battery after the sudden ICE failure.

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Bruce
Mine: Driftwood '04 BC 24 Sept 2004 - added: mudflaps, door edge guards, side panel moldings, Coastal Tech EV switch, OEM Integrity tires, WeatherTech window deflectors. Last tank - 14 Jul '09: 728.9 miles - MFD MPG: 56.0 Actuals Lifetime: 93,087.3 miles, 48.90 MPG.
Wife's: Barcelona '06 #7 May 2006 - added: front mudflaps, Coastal Tech EV switch. OEM Integrity tires. Last tank - 21 May '09: 419.4 miles - MFD MPG: 46.7 Actuals Lifetime: 31571.4 miles, 44.82 MPG.

viking31

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(diamondlarry @ Jul 29 2007, 07:12 AM) [snapback]487025[/snapback]</div>Oh, really? Suing Toyota over the end user unauthorized modification of the highly complex hybrid system which could arguably be construed (that is, installing the EV switch) as putting some extra stress on the battery (hence statistically increased warranty claims however slight) and may also increase ICE pollutants over EPA standards for the Prius?

Find a lawyer who is willing to invest easily 6 and maybe 7 figures on a case like this to sue a foreign corporation with virtually unlimited legal resources.

Rick
#4 2006

Swanny1172

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Aug 2 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]489457[/snapback]</div>
You are absolutely correct. You might find a lawyer to take the case, but you can bet that it won't be on a contingency fee basis. In other words, you will be able to fight only as long as you are able to keep paying the legal bills.

Besides, the law is not in your favor here to begin with. The Magnusson-Moss Act says that a manufacturer may not deny warranty coverage solely because a customer has used an aftermarket part. But, if Toyota determines that the EV button is in some way responsible for the battery problem, it absolutely CAN void the warranty. Sure, you can always argue with the dealer and with Toyota, but you'll probably have to take it to court to get satisfaction.

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2006 Toyota Prius
Package 4

ttr479

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Aug 1 2007, 08:05 PM) [snapback]489060[/snapback]</div>
That's good to know, especially coming from someone who knows more about this car than all but a few engineers in Japan!

Thanks,
Tom