Prius Conversion to E85 Ethanol?

[MontyMan]

Dear Drew:
This is an interesting perspective on alternative fuels; I hadn't thought about what they might do for the racing world. Living in Houston, a city built on a petroleum legacy, I am accustomed to the vilification of alternative fuels in general, and alcohol in particular. Some people say that wasting corn in the production of ethanol has driven up the price of corn products, and others say that removing the excess starch from corn makes an even better animal feed, but since it's moist the ethanol factories must be collocated with ranches and dairies in order to make use of it. And I'm just about convinced that both sides in the shouting match have more ego than information.

I have also heard and read that the reason we use corn starch rather than cane for our alcohol production is that in the USA cane farming is too labor intensive to make a profitable business model. Of course, if producing ethanol from corn were per se profitable, then the federal government wouldn't be subsidizing it, so I don't know what the real-world supply and demand curves look like for fuel ethanol.

The silliest argument I've heard against using ethanol for fuel is that it is not a source of energy, only a storage medium for it. But of course, that is the case with all fuels. We don't think of fuel sources like crude oil and uranium as being energy storage media rather than energy sources, because they were created before we were born. Any renewable fuels we invent will always be storage media for energy, and their creation can be expected to be less than 100% efficient in our real world.

I shouldn't sound like a tree hugger; I am a proponent of continued exploration, drilling, and production of our domestic fuels but I would love it if one day we could stop importing oil.

I have noticed more "flex" vehicles on the road here, and of course with the ebb and flow of the markets it is very likely that today they're burning the E10 we have on every street corner, but a year from now if it goes back to huge prices these drivers may seek out alcohol, at least temporarily.

Best,
....MontyMan.

[Drew442]

I'm sure how corn would be less labor intensive than sugar... it shouldn't matter anyway both our countries have illegal immigration problems, there should be plenty of cheap labor to go around.

It's actually quite amazing the way sugar cane is harvested here. What people were saying before about how much diesel and other fuels are burnt to create the ethanol, 1 litre of diesel to create 1.3 litres of ethanol, none of that is required for sugar.

The sugar cane harvesting in Broadwater NSW actually generates electricity, enough to power the whole population of the Richmond Valley which is about 30,000 I'd say.

It's pretty smart what they are doing.

Traditionally you set fire to the crops to make it easier to collect and ship. Now instead of burning that in the fields they burn it in a furness, turning a turbine, turning a generator, powering the town. They also sell the excess electricity back to the grid and during the recent drought they made more money burning what would normally be ash in a field than they did selling their primary product.

[a_gray_prius]

Originally Posted by MontyMan

Dear Drew:
This is an interesting perspective on alternative fuels; I hadn't thought about what they might do for the racing world.

E85 is FANTASTIC for high-boost forced induction applications.
See: Nothing like a little E85... - evolutionm.net

291 whp / 286 wtq on 91 oct
360 whp / 352 wtq on E85

However, it is probably not particularly useful in a Prius due to low relative energy density (you end up with a significant mileage hit).

[MontyMan]

The fuel efficiency is not as great, it's true. So one ends up using a little more fuel, which costs a little less by volume, since the USA subsidizes it currently. So economically it doesn't make sense to go out of one's way. It is only interesting from the standpoint of driving on renewable fuel, and not everyone is interested in that.