Prius Conversion to E85 Ethanol?

[adamorzol]

Hello Prius Gurus: Can anyone voice their opinion please on the following? Would it be safe to convert the Prius to run on E85 gas? See link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/E85-Convers...1QQcmdZViewItem

Thank you.

[Godiva]

This has been discussed before and the answer is no.

Regardless if you think those few wires are worth $139.00, do you really think it costs $99.00 to ship the little box those suckers come in? And I don't see anything about reprogramming the Prius computer for the E85 fuel mix. And he doesn't mention how much it's going to cost you to replace the bladder.

No. Just.....no.

[stumpy_c]

There is a substantial community of folks out there who have done DIY ethanol conversions. Some who even make their own ethanol (it's just well refined moonshine).

If I'm not mistaken (and I will probably spend the rest of the night reading up on this) there is quite a bit involved - like fuel lines, pump, filter, injector nozzles. I might be wrong about that though.

It also takes quite a bit more ethanol to get you the same distance as gasoline. There is less stored energy, in other words. The fact that it is cheaper per gallon is nice, but you use a lot more of it to go the same distance.

[dogfriend]

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[donee]

Hi UNWIRED,

I read through the Volvo chat group link in the ebay listing. Very Interesting. What it comes down to though, is you need to increase the compression ratio for E85. The Volvo guys with turbo's have an easy alternative. They just up the boost, and get a higher effective compression ratio. Additionally, the cooling effect of the ethanol helps things out a bunch, kinda like a chemical second intercooler. They are getting 330 hp out of the turbo 2.3 liter.

There are several ways to get the increased flow for E85. The simplest seems to be replacing the injectors with higher flow rate injectors. Which is appropriate on the 6 to 9 year old Volvo's talked about. As at that age, replacing the injectors is an appropriate maintanance anyway. Other methods they talk about about is increasing the fuel pressure using a different fuel pressure regulator. At higher pressure, more flow through the same injectors. And finally, they mention the injector pulse stretcher box being sold on Ebay. You would only need one of these three, not all of them.

E85 is apparently much cheaper in Europe. Probably due to the lack of import tarrif on it, unlike here in the US. It turns out that the 30 % more volume consumption of fuel evens out with the lower cost, or even a little better. The car only uses 30 % more E85 than gasoline, because with proper compression ratio modification - more power, the engine runs under load less they say. Otherwise the car would need to use 40 % more fuel. An unmodified car with a gasoline compression ratio would need 50 % more fuel they say, making it uneconomic, which is what GM and Ford sell as E85 compatible (SCAM!).

So, unless you fit a turbo to your Prius, this modification and E85 would be a step backwards. Additionally, the state of Minnesota tested a Gen 1 Prius (no baldder) on E85. It seemed to work, but threw a code - small air fuel ratio. Of course. No other codes, however. The issue might be with the longevity of the fuel tank bladder when exposed to Ethanol, however.

But if you got E85 handy, and an old Volvo Turbo Wagon you still want to use (chop top El-Camino style? rather than buying a F150) , might be a good thing.

[Alric]

And what would be the point? Less mileage, about the same pollution and encourages the use of oil and natural gas during corn harvesting.

Ethanol from corn is no good. Possibly worse than gas...

[smithBYU85]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Sep 23 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]516522[/snapback]</div>

And what would be the point? Less mileage, about the same pollution and encourages the use of oil and natural gas during corn harvesting.

Ethanol from corn is no good. Possibly worse than gas...
[/b]

True that. Most gas stations in Illinois have 10% ethanol added in the gas and my family found that our mileage is about 4 mpg less than regular gas, 89 octane, and it's only about 10 cents cheaper. Doing the math, it is more expensive over time to buy that gas and the mileage is worse. Plus, it may only be cheaper than regular gas due to subsidies, not from lower production costs.

[narf]

Remember, most cars can run on E85.......for a while. Other than the car needing a retuning, ethanol is a much harsher solvent than gasoline, and will attack any plastic or rubber parts that it comes in contact with, even parts that aren't harmed by E10 or gasoline. In the long term unless you can be sure the entire fuel system is ethanol safe you are asking for lots of problems running E85.

[pviebey]

For sure a scam.

Additional info: I remember reading of somebody who was running their Prius on E85, but it definitely isn't sanctioned by Toyota. And, yeah, it can agressively dissolve 'stuff', so I'd not run it within mfr approval.

It also generates lower power in colder temps and can make the car harder to start when it's cold.

Lots of computer unhappiness I can see.

And, finally, for me, it's pointless, 'cause there's like maybe 1 in the entire state of Florida.

PS: There is worthwhile work being done on Ethanol from biomass, but nowhere near ready for market.

[seasalsa]

There is only one E85 station in Phoenix. Why bother?