Towing with the 2004-5 Prius

FireEngineer · 10-31-2004, 09:24 AM

Could the reason Toyota does not want the Prius to tow have less to do with the hybrid system itself and more with the CVT transmission? I am not aware of any vehicle which has a CVT which permits towing. Also, seeing pictures of the CVT used in the Prius, overheating might be a concern as well as excess stress on the belt.

IsrAmeriPrius · 10-31-2004, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Also, seeing pictures of the CVT used in the Prius, overheating might be a concern as well as excess stress on the belt.

The Prius transmission does not use a belt. It is a planetary gear system.

DaveinOlyWA · 10-31-2004, 11:32 AM

i dont feel that the Prius has the torque to tow anything of any weight.

many look at the ample torque of the EV as being capable but that cannot be used as a basis for towing since heavy or extreme use of the vehicle (steep hills OR towing) will drain the traction battery and all but take the EV out of the system leaving only the ICE to power the car.

the Motortrend Car of the Year article details this on their test drive when they basically ran the traction battery down as far as they could then floored it going up a steep very long hill. the power of the car was greatly reduced without the benefit of the EV assist.

so towing a trailer even on level ground will cause the EV to kick in more often than normally which in turn will make charging the traction battery take much longer to the point that any slope may prove to be disasterous.

MT reported doing only 35 mph at the top of their test grade with a drained (well drained as far as the computer would let it be drained) traction battery offering no help.

DaveinOlyWA · 10-31-2004, 11:47 AM

CORRECTION

the article mentioned in my previous post was from Consumers Report... sorry about that.

they also mentioned that with a fully charged traction battery, the car flew up the hill "easily maintaining a speed of 75 mph"

Frank Hudon · 10-31-2004, 12:52 PM

The Prius uses a hi-volume drive chain in the link from the PSD to the intermediate reduction gear in the drive unit. The function of the intermediate reduction gear is to reverse the direction of the power flow from the drive motors and ICE to the forward direction required to make the car go forward without the need for a reverse rotation camshaft in the ICE. This is a common feature of almost all FWD cars, as the ICE rotates CW when viewed from the front end, and if there is no intermediate gear the diffy turns opposite. Is the Hi-vol chain a weak point, short answer is No. If a taxi operation can put over 330,000KM on the drive unit without problems I doubt that towing a trailer for reasonable distances is either. Taxi operation is probably the most demanding on tranny's and diffy's there is, lots of heavy loads, IE. near maximum gross vehicle weight. In the Prius, MG1 is the main provider of motive power to operate the car, with the HV battery supplementing with additional power as required and determined by the computers. The MG's 1+2 both have thermistors buried in the windings that provide ongoing readouts for the computers to look and evaluate to determine the operation of the drive unit. Along with temp sensors in the battery and the air ducting for it. This car is a lot better at determining what if anything is wrong with any parameter than us mortals, and will shut it down if anything goes wildly out of the norm. I've used both the Classic and the 2k4 in the mountains and never had a problem with either, the Classic is a bit better in long continuous climbs than the 2k4 in my opinion and that is totally subjective but both have never had a problem as any of you who have crossed the Cascades will attest to. Now to towing a small trailer that is under the maximum gross vehicle weight as being a major problem, in my opinion, no.

DaveinOlyWA · 10-31-2004, 02:23 PM

i went up to Mt. Saint Helens viewpoint a vertical rise of 6000 feet at 65 mph and never had a problem, that includes a 75 mph pass of a slow moving vehicle on a two lane road going uphill.

i was impressed.

Craig0812 · 10-31-2004, 03:49 PM

Unfortunately, this vehicles wasn't designed to tow, but I am sure you can haul bicycles on either the top or install a hitch for hauling on the rear. Anyone install a bike rack on top? Please advise....

Frank Hudon · 10-31-2004, 07:47 PM

3 bikes on a roof top mount has way more drag than a small trailer has. By a country mile, same goes for cross mount on the back of the car. The trailer I tow is completely hidden in the slip stream of the car. I can't see it in any mirror on the car. I've seen people hauling Zodiac boats and tent trailers with the Prius and non seem any worse for it. The reason Toyota doesn't recommend towing is you can bet some goof will hook up a 22 foot travel trailer to it and then head out thru the Rocky Mountains. Read my comment on CGVW and understand the Prius can carry about 800 lbs. all in, fuel, passengers and driver If you have a driver at 175Lbs and 60Lbs of fuel, that leaves what 560 lbs for luggage,rocks, what ever. If your trailer weighs 400Lbs loaded and your trailer hitch weighs 70Lbs it leaves you 95Lbs for beer and pretzels. And don't drink and drive.

Batavier · 11-01-2004, 08:46 AM

And don't choke on the Pretzels...

plusaf · 02-26-2005, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Has anyone adapted a trailer harness of some sort to provide brake and turn signals to their trailer/bike rack. I would think that some states would require the use of these lights when obstructing the Prius lights. Some states even require a license plate bracket, with illumination, on the back if the plate on the car is obstructed.

yeah, where do i hook the trailer connection???

and as for long-term trailering, i'll be letting all y'all know this summer... i'm assembling the trailer now..

http://www.plusaf.com/prius/prius.htm

10-31-2004, 09:24 AM	#11
FireEngineer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: SW-Side of Chicago, IL Posts: 1,200 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: IV Package: Solar Roof Thanks: 1 Thanked 80 Times in 58 Posts Friends: 13	Re: Towing with the 2004-5 Prius Could the reason Toyota does not want the Prius to tow have less to do with the hybrid system itself and more with the CVT transmission? I am not aware of any vehicle which has a CVT which permits towing. Also, seeing pictures of the CVT used in the Prius, overheating might be a concern as well as excess stress on the belt.

10-31-2004, 11:32 AM	#13
DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,807 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: IV Package: Solar Roof Thanks: 38 Thanked 187 Times in 160 Posts Friends: 12	i dont feel that the Prius has the torque to tow anything of any weight. many look at the ample torque of the EV as being capable but that cannot be used as a basis for towing since heavy or extreme use of the vehicle (steep hills OR towing) will drain the traction battery and all but take the EV out of the system leaving only the ICE to power the car. the Motortrend Car of the Year article details this on their test drive when they basically ran the traction battery down as far as they could then floored it going up a steep very long hill. the power of the car was greatly reduced without the benefit of the EV assist. so towing a trailer even on level ground will cause the EV to kick in more often than normally which in turn will make charging the traction battery take much longer to the point that any slope may prove to be disasterous. MT reported doing only 35 mph at the top of their test grade with a drained (well drained as far as the computer would let it be drained) traction battery offering no help. __________________ My Blue 2010 : Last tank 548.4 @ 50.48 pump (56.5 MFD) 5.74 CPM, 23 MPH, Lifetime:8102.4 miles MPG pump. 53.75 (59.49 MFD) 5.04 CPM. Summer MPG 57.4 Winter: 48.98 My 2006 SPM: Last tank 456.3 @46.9 pump (47.3 MFD) 6.23 cpm winter mpg 49.29 summer mpg 53.41 lifetime: 44,804.8 miles 51.18 mpg pump (52.34 mpg MFD) 5.54 cpm My 2007 Zenn total "fuel cost" $168.25 on "about" 9659.7 miles. 1.74 cents per mile (granted i plug in for free at work!!) My Plate: DUALPWR (Dual Power)

10-31-2004, 12:52 PM	#15
Frank Hudon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,144 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Friends: 0	Re: Towing with the 2004-5 Prius The Prius uses a hi-volume drive chain in the link from the PSD to the intermediate reduction gear in the drive unit. The function of the intermediate reduction gear is to reverse the direction of the power flow from the drive motors and ICE to the forward direction required to make the car go forward without the need for a reverse rotation camshaft in the ICE. This is a common feature of almost all FWD cars, as the ICE rotates CW when viewed from the front end, and if there is no intermediate gear the diffy turns opposite. Is the Hi-vol chain a weak point, short answer is No. If a taxi operation can put over 330,000KM on the drive unit without problems I doubt that towing a trailer for reasonable distances is either. Taxi operation is probably the most demanding on tranny's and diffy's there is, lots of heavy loads, IE. near maximum gross vehicle weight. In the Prius, MG1 is the main provider of motive power to operate the car, with the HV battery supplementing with additional power as required and determined by the computers. The MG's 1+2 both have thermistors buried in the windings that provide ongoing readouts for the computers to look and evaluate to determine the operation of the drive unit. Along with temp sensors in the battery and the air ducting for it. This car is a lot better at determining what if anything is wrong with any parameter than us mortals, and will shut it down if anything goes wildly out of the norm. I've used both the Classic and the 2k4 in the mountains and never had a problem with either, the Classic is a bit better in long continuous climbs than the 2k4 in my opinion and that is totally subjective but both have never had a problem as any of you who have crossed the Cascades will attest to. Now to towing a small trailer that is under the maximum gross vehicle weight as being a major problem, in my opinion, no. __________________ You can quote me on this, People who drive vehicles that idle at a traffic light, are idiots. mine 2k3 avg. 5.36 for 46,915Km Best tank 4.4L per 100K 64.2 Imperial 53.4 U.S. gallon, MiniScanner, SilverStars, block heater, winter lips, in as of Oct 15, out on April 25. In again on Sept. 21st. her's 2k4 "B" avg. 6.01 for 42,317 Km Best tank 4.02L per 100K, CAN-view with OBD11 module and flashloader, SilverStars, 06 Chrome grill bar, Michelin HydroEdge, upper and lower grill blocker,upper out as of April 7, lower out on April 28. In again on Sept 21st.

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10-31-2004, 11:47 AM	#14
DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,807 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: IV Package: Solar Roof Thanks: 38 Thanked 187 Times in 160 Posts Friends: 12	CORRECTION the article mentioned in my previous post was from Consumers Report... sorry about that. they also mentioned that with a fully charged traction battery, the car flew up the hill "easily maintaining a speed of 75 mph"

10-31-2004, 02:23 PM	#16
DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,807 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: IV Package: Solar Roof Thanks: 38 Thanked 187 Times in 160 Posts Friends: 12	i went up to Mt. Saint Helens viewpoint a vertical rise of 6000 feet at 65 mph and never had a problem, that includes a 75 mph pass of a slow moving vehicle on a two lane road going uphill. i was impressed.

10-31-2004, 03:49 PM	#17
Craig0812 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 36 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Unfortunately, this vehicles wasn't designed to tow, but I am sure you can haul bicycles on either the top or install a hitch for hauling on the rear. Anyone install a bike rack on top? Please advise....

10-31-2004, 07:47 PM	#18
Frank Hudon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,144 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Friends: 0	3 bikes on a roof top mount has way more drag than a small trailer has. By a country mile, same goes for cross mount on the back of the car. The trailer I tow is completely hidden in the slip stream of the car. I can't see it in any mirror on the car. I've seen people hauling Zodiac boats and tent trailers with the Prius and non seem any worse for it. The reason Toyota doesn't recommend towing is you can bet some goof will hook up a 22 foot travel trailer to it and then head out thru the Rocky Mountains. Read my comment on CGVW and understand the Prius can carry about 800 lbs. all in, fuel, passengers and driver If you have a driver at 175Lbs and 60Lbs of fuel, that leaves what 560 lbs for luggage,rocks, what ever. If your trailer weighs 400Lbs loaded and your trailer hitch weighs 70Lbs it leaves you 95Lbs for beer and pretzels. And don't drink and drive.

11-01-2004, 08:46 AM	#19
Batavier Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 431 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	And don't choke on the Pretzels...