Saw a Hybrid Tahoe yesterday

[miscrms]

Originally Posted by finman

Here's the other "funny" that may not show on GMs website: emissions are higher in the hybrid version of the Yukon/Tahoe as compared to the gas-only versions. And this is progress? C'mon GM, compete!

I had noticed that too. Kind of sad huh? The regular Tahoe is T2B4, while the hybrid is T2B5. I would guess its because they had to use the larger 6L engine in the hybrid. I forget exactly why it is that the hybrid + 6L is slower than the 5.3L. Must be a feature.

Rob

[Chuck.]

Chrysler is going to be a great test case for hybrid SUVs...will the public consider them fuel efficient enough? My gut feeling is few cared about them in the past, but now that gas prices matter, most will want to echew anything larger than a Ford Escape.

[briansabeans]

Originally Posted by orenf

The *needs* argument is simply self-defeating. Take it one step further, and you'll note that, for most of us, there's no *need* for a Prius - ever hear of public transportation?
Don't buy a car, and when you need to go where public doesn't take you, simply rent a Prius for the day.
Sounds ridiculous? That was the same "get a U-Haul" argument made on this thread with regards to towing.

I think you're confused -- Prius owners aren't claiming we "need" our Prius, it's the SUV and large truck owners who claim they "need" theirs. And we are simply pointing out that it's not true, so "needs" cannot justify their purchase.

Obviously we all do a lot of things we do not need to do, and that's fine, but at some point, we cannot engage in overly risky behaviors that we do not need to do. This is why you are not allowed to dump toxic waste in drinking water, but you are allowed to buy an unneccessary motor vehicle. HOWEVER, if you insist upon buying that motor vehicle -- like all of us have -- then you might as well get the one that hurts the world the least. SUVs and large trucks are an entire breed of vehicles that prey both upon the environment, and in the case of SUVs, cause a decrease in safety to non-SUVs around them.

To those who say that the government shouldn't tell us what kind of car we can drive -- if you believe that, then you clearly want to repeal a whole bunch of laws, because they already do that. They mandate fuel efficiency for certain sized cars; they mandate safety equipment; they forbid certain things such as the lack of a "Neutral" gear; they don't allow us to operate a vehicle that runs on nuclear waste. Do you want them to get rid of all these regulations? Do you want to go back to the days of no airbags and no safety standards? Of course not. I don't think it's any more extreme to say that large trucks and SUVs should be limited in production or limited in weight or required to meet fuel efficiency standards. It's the same thing, so that argument crumbles like a house of cards.

I don't like the attacks on Texas, btw. It doesn't increase Californians' standing in the country to insult millions of people in other states. Some people in Texas are forward thinking progressives like me and others are strict conservatives. Actually, I think we might have the most ignorant people in California, to be honest (think Fresno.)

[fish_antlers]

I just dont get it... no other car company can make a hybrid... no one can make an SUV ... no one is allowed to own or drive a snowmobile.

Is there this much anger directed at the Highlander Hybrid?

What about Toyota in general? How can any of us own a prius? by the logic presented in this thread, we couldn't since Toyota makes vehicles like the Tundra...

not to mention the heavy industrial machinery toyota both produces and utilizes.

so where is this going? car manufacturers attempt to improve their products, so peoiple here become enraged.

this makes no sense whatsoever.

[john1701a]

trolling, trolling, trolling...

.

[miscrms]

Originally Posted by Ailu

Oh no, I just asked that because I'm interested in people expressing their views. I'm curious to know how people feel about these types of scenarios.

For instance, hubby has to drive 30 miles into town today, and I have a haircut 10 miles down the road at 1pm. So he's taking the Prius, and I'll have to take the truck, which we usually only drive to the lake, except for situations like this (not enough time in my schedule for me to bike down there.) I wonder how people feel about this. And I wonder how people view me, going down the road, all by myself, in a big honkin gas guzzler.

Personally I have no problem with it. I think the same is true of most folks here, as we've had similar discussions before. If you recognize that the truck is doing a fair amount of harm, and use it as little as possible and mostly for its intended purpose that makes sense to me. IMHO you're much better off (as are the rest of us) driving a Prius or other efficient vehicle most of the time and keeping an older truck for the few times you actually need it. I don't see anyone buying a $52k Tahoe Hybrid and then driving it as little as possible. Thats a big part of why I have a problem with it. By its very nature it encourages waste, even if its slightly less wasteful than its non-hybrid counterpart.

Situation A: Buy a new Tahoe Hybrid 4WD. Drive 15,000 miles per year.
Upfront Cost: $52,000
Gas Used: 750 Gallons/yr
Gas Cost: $2955/yr (@ today's average $3.94/gal)
Petroleum Used: 17.1 Barrels
CO2: 18,400 lbs/yr (Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas)
CO: 57.9 lbs/yr EST (poison/toxic)
NOx: 10.5 oz/yr EST (Smog / Acid Rain, breathing problems)
NMOG: 1.12 lbs/yr EST (Hydrocarbons, VOCs, Smog, cancer)

*Tahoe Hybrid emissions details not yet published beyond T2B5 rating, estimated from T2B5 5.3L GM V8: 8GMXT05.3373. All emissions FTP-75@50k miles (ie newish) except CO, which is average of FTP-75 and SC03 @ 4k miles. CO2, fuel consumption and cost from fueleconomy.gov.

Situation B: Buy a new 2008 Prius, and a used 2005 4WD Tahoe 5.3L. Drive Prius 12,000 miles/year, Tahoe 3,000 miles/year for towing, camping etc.
Upfront Cost: $25,000 + $20,000 = $45,000
Gas Used: 261 + 200 = 461 gal/yr
Gas Cost: $1028 + $788 = $1816/yr (@ today's average $3.94/gal)
Petroleum Used: 5.9 + 4.6 = 10.5 barrels
CO2: 6400 + 4880 = 11280 lbs/yr (Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas)
CO: 2.65 + 10.6 lbs = 13.25 lbs/yr (poison/toxic)
NOx: 4.2 + 4.2 = 8.4 oz/yr (Smog / Acid Rain, breathing problems)
NMOG: 0.24 + 0.51 = 0.75 lbs/yr (Hydrocarbons, VOCs, Smog, cancer)

Situation C: Buy a new 2008 Prius, and a used 2007 4WD Tahoe 5.3L. Drive Prius 7,500 miles/yr, Tahoe 7,500 miles per year for family trips, camping, towing etc.
Upfront Cost: $25,000 + $27,000 = $52,000
Gas Used: 163 + 469 = 632 gal/yr
Gas Cost: $642 + $1848 = $2490/yr (@ today's average $3.94/gal)
Petroleum Used: 3.7 + 10.7 = 14.4 barrels
CO2: 4000 + 11400 = 15400 lbs/yr (Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas)
CO: 1.65 + 15.7 lbs = 17.35 lbs/yr (poison/toxic)
NOx: 2.65 + 5.3 = 7.95 oz/yr (Smog / Acid Rain, breathing problems)
NMOG: 0.15 + 1.07 = 1.22 lbs/yr (Hydrocarbons, VOCs, Smog, cancer)

Compare Situation B vs. A:
Upfront Cost: B saves $7,000 or 13.5%
Gas Used: B saves 289 Gallons/yr or 38.5%
Gas Cost: B saves $1139/yr (@ today's average $3.94/gal)
Petroleum Used: B saves 6.6 Barrels/yr
CO2: B saves 7120 lbs/yr (Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas)
CO: B saves 44.65 lbs/yr or 77% (poison/toxic)
NOx: B saves 2.1 oz/yr or 20% (Smog / Acid Rain, breathing problems)
NMOG: B saves 0.37 lbs/yr or 33% (Hydrocarbons, VOCs, Smog, cancer)

Compare Situation C vs. A:
Upfront Cost: C costs same as A
Gas Used: C saves 118 Gallons/yr or 16%
Gas Cost: C saves $465/yr (@ today's average $3.94/gal)
Petroleum Used: C saves 2.7 Barrels/yr
CO2: C saves 3000 lbs/yr (Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas)
CO: C saves 40.5 lbs/yr or 70% (poison/toxic)
NOx: C saves 2.55 oz/yr or 24% (Smog / Acid Rain, breathing problems)
NMOG: A saves 0.1 lbs/yr or 8.2% (Hydrocarbons, VOCs, Smog, cancer)

It seems to me that a Prius and a used non-hybrid truck is better for the planet, air quality, petroleum/gas consumption and your wallet even if you "need" to drive the truck half the time. In reality I don't know that I know any SUV drivers that use half their miles either hauling or towing more stuff/people than they could fit in a Prius. I'm sure they exist, but are the vast minority of the truck/SUV driving population. Thats the main reason our SUV sits out back and hasn't been used in 6 months. We proudly participate in the PriusChat SUV sequestration program

Rob

[fish_antlers]

you think I'm trolling because I saw a brand new hybrid from a domestic OEM?

right... :rolleyes

I, for one, am suitably impressed that Chevy is stepping up to the plate... on top of that with a 6600lb towing capacity I bet you'll see a lot of American families hit the road with one of these.

Good for Chevy, and keep it coming!

[miscrms]

Originally Posted by fish_antlers

I just dont get it... no other car company can make a hybrid... no one can make an SUV ... no one is allowed to own or drive a snowmobile.

Is there this much anger directed at the Highlander Hybrid?

What about Toyota in general? How can any of us own a prius? by the logic presented in this thread, we couldn't since Toyota makes vehicles like the Tundra...

not to mention the heavy industrial machinery toyota both produces and utilizes.

so where is this going? car manufacturers attempt to improve their products, so peoiple here become enraged.

this makes no sense whatsoever.

For what its worth I think most folks here think the Ford Escape is a better product than any of the Lexus Hybrids or probably even the Highlander. I know its the one I'd buy if I thought I needed a small SUV.

As for the rest of the argument its pretty clear you're just sitting around trying to figure out how to get people riled up. No one has claimed Toyota is better than any other company, or doesn't have plenty of faults. No one has claimed we shouldn't buy a Tahoe hybrid because GM is evil. Most of the posts have been a pretty good discussion of why the Tahoe hybrid is an inferior product to many others currently available. We've also expressed dismay that GM is using some pretty misleading tactics to try and convince people that this truck is a clean green way to drive the family to the mall. I think thats pretty dishonest, and doesn't improve my opinion of GM much.

Rob

[Joekc]

I saw one today parked in the entrance of Costco. The mileage was listed as 20/20 and the price was over $50k. It was plastered fore, aft and on both sides with "hybrid" decals just in case someone would doubt it. Who in the hell would buy something like this?

[fish_antlers]

Originally Posted by Joekc

I saw one today parked in the entrance of Costco. The mileage was listed as 20/20 and the price was over $50k. It was plastered fore, aft and on both sides with "hybrid" decals just in case someone would doubt it. Who in the hell would buy something like this?

because it gets decent mileage and can tow 6600lbs,.