Unbelievably poor performance on snow

[Betelgeuse]

As I always feel the need to point out in threads like these, we've had zero problems with traction control in the 3 winters that we've had the car. For all three of those winters, we had the stock Integrities on the car running at moderate pressure (40/38). The winters up here (CT/MA) aren't nearly as bad as what you get out in MN, but I've never experienced anything close to the problems that people describe on these boards. My experiences have been on fresh snow, packed snow, ice, and wet roads. The tires definitely slip a bit more on snow and ice, but nothing that can't be tolerated with slowing down and driving a little more carefully.

I write this not to criticize anyone's driving style, but just to point out that I really don't understand what's causing such wild differences in driving experience with the Prius.

[nerfer]

There seem to be two variations of the traction control. Some people have complained for years they get onto something slick and the tires just stop, or at best creep slowly. But others, including me, have had nothing out of the ordinary. For my car, it spins, grips, spins, grips like you expect traction control to do (when it spins and loses traction, it brakes the wheel and you regain traction for a time). You shouldn't need to be very gentle on the throttle, that probably means you're avoiding the traction control altogether (although it's not a bad idea, and was needed before TC).

I grew up in northern MN with RWD and FWD cars, and my last car was a Subaru (AWD), I've always enjoyed driving in the snow and trying to make cars slide just a little. So I've had a bit of experience with snow and traction. I've deliberately taken my Prius out on the steepest hills I can find around here during snowstorms and it behaves like any FWD car would behave or better (with OEM Integrity tires, now at 26K miles of wear on them). But Jayman from Winnipeg, who has probably more snow and vehicle experience than me, has Prius problems like others here have said. That was helped by putting on snow tires, but I think there must be two different traction-control programs that Toyota uses for the Prius. I don't have ESC (electronic stability control), I'm not sure if that makes a difference. Can you spin a cookie (or donut, depending on locale) if you put the car in reverse on a snowy parking lot?

[Santiago]

Has anyone had experience with Bridgestone Tires (the ones that come on the Touring Model) in the snow and ice? Almost all of the bad comments are about the stock tires that come with the non-Touring models or don't mention what tire they are using (if not snow tires).

[icarus]

I have to echo the previous post. We are into our second winter on the original tires. North west snow is very slippery, compared to other parts of the country. While it doesn't match the Subaru, the Prius has gotten us through several bouts of snow, including a long trip to New Mexico and back in the winter with snow virtually all the way. Good Nokians will be my choice when it is time for a change, but I think operator error plays a part here.

Icarus

[nerfer]

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

As I always feel the need to point out in threads like these, we've had zero problems with traction control in the 3 winters that we've had the car. For all three of those winters, we had the stock Integrities on the car running at moderate pressure (40/38).

Thanks for the confirmation.

The winters up here (CT/MA) aren't nearly as bad as what you get out in MN...

Actually I disagree. I've lived in both MN and CT, and while the temperatures in CT are not nearly as cold, and the snow doesn't last as long, the snow tends to be much more slushy and slippery and more easily packs into ice. When the temperature is safely below freezing (less than 20'F), the snow tends to be drier and gives better grip for driving. At -30'F you can kick a chunk of snow and it sounds like a tin can as it bounces over the pavement.

The first snowfall of the year is also often slushy and slippery. People blame the accidents in the beginning of winter on drivers moving into the area or people 'forgetting' how to drive on snow, and there might be some of that, but really, the snowfalls at the start and end of the winter season are more dangerous in general because the snow is slicker than snow at really cold temperatures.

I write this not to criticize anyone's driving style, but just to point out that I really don't understand what's causing such wild differences in driving experience with the Prius.

I still think there's different programs in different versions of the Prius. It would be interesting to swap drivers in one of these cases and see if we could narrow it down.

[qbee42]

Earlier someone mentioned jayman. Remember that he is driving an earlier Prius, and they have a lot touchier traction control.

Tom

[jayman]

Originally Posted by nerfer

For my car, it spins, grips, spins, grips like you expect traction control to do (when it spins and loses traction, it brakes the wheel and you regain traction for a time).

No, it does not. I have never noticed anything like a brake being applied to a poor traction wheel on my Prius. My FJ Cruiser, on the other hand, *does* have that feature.

With the studless snow tires on my Cruiser, one side can be on glare ice, the other on dry pavement. With the transfer in 2H, I can step on the gas, the electric brake boost pump buzzes, the traction light starts blinking, and away I go with no drama at all

With high traction, aggressive, studded snow tires, my Prius has better traction on icy roads than my FJ with studless snow tires. I got my Goodyear Nordic from Canadian Tire, it's the same as the Goodyear Ultra Grip 500 sold in the EU

Goodyear Eur-Winter Tire-UltraGrip 500

If you click on "Profile" a Flash movie loads that explains the tire construction and benefits. This is a noisy tire on dry roads, but the outstanding winter traction is worth it

[jayman]

I'm surprised the OP is complaining about a relatively new Prius. I testdrove a new Prius back in April, when there was still a bit of snow around. I thought it had far superior TC behavior compared to my 2004

When I first got my '04, the winter tires were backordered. On the OEM's, my Prius came to a stop right in the middle of the intersection at Waverly and Bishop Grandin, I was south on Waverly in the left turn lane, to head east on Bishop

The car just stopped. Other cars were moving with some wheelspin. I tried rocking, being gentle with the gas, flooring the gas and cursing the car, nothing worked. I know how to drive in winter conditions, and that scared me.

I was almost creamed by a semi truck before the damn car started to slowly move again. I figured, either the winter tires come in TODAY, or I drive my Prius back to my dealer and set it (The car and the dealer) on fire

Fortunately, the winter tires arrived soon after. A day and night difference. When I went to the studded tires, an improvement again

[Dolgon]

A few updates.

1) We do have a Touring Prius and I confirmed we have the Bridgestone tires.
2) I spoke to my dealer who had not heard of similar problems, but wanted to check with his service manager. After speaking to the service manager he called back and they would like to see my Prius tomorrow AM for a checkup.
3) Please remember I was not pulling any wild maneuvers or driving like a nut. I'm very cautious on snow/ice and have been driving in MN for 10+ years. The incident that worried me most was turning off of a road with a bit of packed snow onto my perfectly clear and dry driveway (given it is uphill) at ~5MPH and having the car come to a stop within a few feet with the yellow light shining away on the dash.

[qbee42]

Jayman is correct. The traction control on the Prius simply modulates power to the wheels. There is no selective braking action.

VSC, on the other hand, does do selective control over individual brakes, but not for the purpose of improving traction. VSC, which is an option, improves the stability of your Prius during maneuvering and under slippery conditions.

Tom