Proud of my Prius Snow Performance

[bruceha_2000]

I managed to get the VSC chime testing in a parking lot. I had to work at it though and I never felt I was going to lose control.

I am not all that happy with the OEM tires though. They were OK in the parking lot and once the car is moving on snow. But getting going, expecially up hill in the mucky stuff gets the traction control working OT. It gets going OK with a lot of little bumps and jerks but it doesn't bite in like a decent snow tire should. At least the car isn't wiggling all over the place like other cars with poor 'on snow' tires. I guess I'll be re-reading the snow tire threads.

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bruceha_2000\";p=\"60050)</div>

I guess I'll be re-reading the snow tire threads.[/b]

Don't get snow tires unless you actually need that much traction and you are willing to do the seasonal swap each year.

High-Traction tires (like HydroEdge & TripleTread) are typically the better choice, especially since they provide impressive wet & dry performance during the warm season too.

[bruceha_2000]

John,
I have had snows on their own rims since I moved from LA to VT 25 years ago. However, it would be nice to save the garage space. Thus, I've been pondering the Hydros and T-Treads too. Presumably the All Seasons are better designed and built now and perhaps with Trac and VSC, might be as good or even better than dedicated snows on my prior vehicles.

The twice yearly swap isn't much different though as one should rotate their tires.

[SyZyGy]

Some cars are actually fun to drive in the snow. I have pilots (michellin) on my Mitsu Evolution 8. It is a blast on the snow. It can grip pretty good , plus its AWD. Its hard to loose controll. I don't even loose control when drifting in the snow. Its pretty fun going completely sideways around a turn. :mrgreen:

[allenlux]

Winter tyres are used by a high proportion of drivers around here. My understanding is that they are optimised for low temperatures, snow is a secondary issue. The rubber formulation used in winter tyres is designed to give better grip at temperatures below around 4 degC, the level at which normal tyres start to harden and lose grip.

I used to be very sceptical about all this, but the more I read about it the more sense it makes. Snow tends to be a transient thing, but low temperatures persist for months on end.

I assume that when north Americans refer to "snow tyres", these are also low-temperature-optimised tyres.

My Prius is due for delivery in February, so I will attempt to buy winter tyres for it as soon as possible.

[jayman]

I've had my Dunlop Graspic DS-2 studless winter tires for about a month now. I traded the Goodyear Integrity tires with less than 2,000km on them, and had Michelin Harmony all season tires put on.

Here are my honest comments, comparing the Michelin Harmony to the Graspic's, starting with the positives:

Positives: much improved grip on ice, especially colder than -30 C, almost as good as studded tires. Better traction on hardpack snow. Much better traction in deep snow, especially over ice. Much better in deep slush. Softer riding (I'd call that a plus, maybe you wouldn't, it's subjective).

Negatives: Steering response can be numb and delayed, especially in temps over +5 C (Never dangerous though). A bit noisier than the Harmonies at highway speed, especially over 110 km/h. Somewhat lower highway fuel economy (5.3 litres per 100km vs 5.1 / 100km under the same speed and conditions).

Although I still believe that good studded winter tires have better glare ice traction, I'll be the first to admit the Graspic delivers about 2/3 of that ice traction. They are a LOT easier to live with than studded tires.

The Graspic's have a very soft and squishy tread pattern, which as mentioned is optimized for cold temp performance on ice and snow. They obviously don't make sense in a moderate climate with only the occasional snow: carry chains for those conditions.

Here, winter seems to last forever. When it dips to -30 C and stays that way for a month or two, whatever ice is at the intersection will stay there, as the salt doesn't work at that temp. So you need a tire that works at that temp.

I have mine on steel rims. True, it can be a PITA to swap tires twice a year, but it's also a PITA to rotate tires too. Since each tire set is only getting half the use, they should last twice as long.

Sweden and Finland require winter tires to drive in winter, and the province of Quebec recently passed that ruling after some nasty winter accidents. Sweden claims their winter accident rate dropped 50% by having the winter tire law.

I would like to see Tire Rack do a retest of popular all-season tires and winter tires on their skating rink. I'd even happily lend my Prius for the test, just to see what the difference is under carefully controlled conditions, not subjective posterior feel.

As a final thought: how much salt is spread on your roads in winter? Minnesota really pours the salt, and Manitoba has started pouring it too. I've had aluminum rims destroyed (Clear coat gone and serious etching and pitting) by driving them in winter salt conditions.

I cleaned off my aluminum wheels and stored them in my condo storage room. I sprayed WD-40 on the steel rims before mounting them on the Prius, and if they start to rust, I can always get a can of Tremclad Black and respray them.

Here is some reference on the subject:

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/c...ires/index.html

http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/national/2004...ires040129.html

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/c.../tiretests.html

http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/national/2001...tire010109.html

http://62.119.60.67/templates/Report____27...x?reportid=2460

http://62.119.60.67/templates/Report____27...x?reportid=2497

[bruceha_2000]

OK, the Integritys are OUTTA HERE!

I took the kids to Camp Paw Paw (Humane Society) yesterday. The driveway is the right side of the letter 'Y' coming from my house. It is steep, kind of like the "Will my car make it up my driveway" thread pictures. There was a fair amount of snow and junk even though it had been plowed.

Hitting it at 10 or 12 MPH I managed to get up with some traction control bump and go. I came from the other direction when I picked them up. From a dead stop, I barely inched my way up with the TC fighting all the way up. I'm just glad there wasn't anyone behind me, it would have been HORRIBLE Prius press.

It was a little better today as I only went the 'easy' way. I found it mildly amusing/annoying that none of the SUVs pulled to the edge when we passed on the narrow driveway, I was the one with 1 wheel in the snow. I guess they have no faith in their 4WD and greater road clearance.

I have decided on the Goodyear TT over the HydroEdge. Since John thought his Integritys were OK last winter, I infer that his driving conditions do not reflect mine. The tread pattern on the HydroEdge doesn't look like it will be as good as the TT for starts on snow and crud covered hills. I won't have them for a week, hopefully we won't have much snow until then.

[prius04]

I drive in snow all the time but haven't bought snow tires since steel belted radials were invented. (I guess I'm showing my age.)

In any case, I've got to comment on how wonderful I did in the snow Sunday in my Prius. We got about 10 inches of snow over 10 hours and I was driving during 4 of those hours. I never once slipped and it got to the point that I got tired of doing 30 MPH on the interstate so I moved into the partially plowed high speed lane and got up to 45 or so, passing all the slow traffic.

Again, I never ONCE slipped though my traction control light came on a few times. My wife was with me and she was extremely impressed as well.

She has never had antilock brakes but she now has them on her new toyota Corolla so I slammed on the brakes a few times to get her used to the feel and sound. On every slam -- done when there was no traffic in front or behind -- the car came to a perfect straight ahead stop. Then I would floor it to test the VSC and I moved ahead slowly and straight again.

Fun to drive in the snow and it was particularly fun driving by the behemoth SUVs out there.

Every once in awhile I had to pull to the right to allow someone to drive by me at 55+ or so. But my limit was 45 or 50 tops.

Great car!!

[jayman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bruceha_2000\";p=\"60210)</div>

OK, the Integritys are OUTTA HERE!

Hitting it at 10 or 12 MPH I managed to get up with some traction control bump and go.  I came from the other direction  when I picked them up.  From a dead stop, I barely inched my way up with the TC fighting all the way up.  I'm just glad there wasn't anyone behind me, it would have been HORRIBLE Prius press.

[/b]

Sounds like the adventure I had trying to make it up that icy parking ramp at the mall, I had to back down and forget about it. That was with the stock Goodyear Integrity tires. Note that other cars with all-season tires also couldn't make it up that icy parking ramp.

I'll be the first to admit that "all season" tires have come a long way. So have studless winter tires. If your winters are mild and don't last long, maybe good all-season tires are what you need.

If you get a huge amount of snow every winter, especially ice, then your experience with the all-season tires is typical: they don't cut it. Invest in a good set of winter tires like I do, and have done for +20 years. The life you save may be your entire family!

I'm happy to hear that John has good luck in the Twin Cities with all-season tires. Very early this year I had to drive my Mom down to Rochester (Mayo Clinic). I took I-35E until the #52 exit, and just about got nailed by a car.

It had just snowed and I-35E was icy. The car spun out in front of me. Fortunately, I had my 2000 GMC Sierra with 800lbs of sand bags and Bridgestone Winter Dueler tires. That was quite the drive. On the way back, stopped in St. Anthony so my Mom could visit with an old friend.

From what I could see, cars were spinning and sliding all over the place. Was happy to put that behind me, though I-29 through Fargo and Grand Forks wasn't much better.

It takes a strong constitution to live in flat-lander country. Right Daniel?

[ClintinMD]

I too just got back from Kentucky. I was in Louisville during the "big" ice storm followed by the 7 or so inches of snow on top! My Prius did great during the drive that afternoon. Once I arrived at my destination, I parked it in my brother's driveway. The next morning I cleaned off all the snow and ice. However the ice had my Prius stuck to the driveway. I wasn't going anywhere. We had to chisel my poor baby out of it's ice cocoon! Once I got out of the ice covered driveway, it did great on the snow covered roads. Even though there was ice under the snow it performed great! I guess when my "warm" car parked on the ice covered driveway, it sank into the ice EEKKK!! My Prius was not really very happy to say the least!