Noisemaker nonsense again

[bredekamp]

Japan may add noise to quiet hybrid cars for safety

Has anyone ever considered that you cannot hear the hybrids cause the other cars are so noisy? Make all the cars quieter and you lower the noise floor. This can make it possible for vision impaired people to hear the hybrids. No car is completely quiet....

I will state now in this open forum and to anyone at Honda and Toyota reading this that I will NEVER buy a car with a "noisemaker". I'll demand that it be disabled or removed. If not, I'll do it myself.

[bwilson4web]

Japan is the only country with a higher population of Prius than the USA. We can find no evidence of a safety hazard with the more than 500,000 Prius sold here. I've attempted to get Japanese accident data without success. So all we can hope for is perhaps our friends in Japan will be successful in throwing some light on this effort.

I would offer one observation that many of these efforts seem to get 'automotive' support from less successful manufacturer. Now it may have been accidental but the photo is of a Honda hybrid and the Google ad insert was to the Honda web site. Probably just a coincidence ... yeap, just a Honda coincidence.

BTW, posting here is a bit like 'preaching to the choir' and I notice that web site supports user comments. The right place to post is to the original source and then those sites that "echo" this nonsense. Address the editor and ask them to check the facts and data. For example, this is what I posted there:

Over 500,000 Prius have been sold in the USA since 2001 and looking at the fatality accident reporting system (FARS) data, we found only 11, Prius-pedestrian fatalities. Based upon the expected number of miles per vehicle per year, this rate is no different from what ordinary gas-only vehicles. Notice that none of the proponents bring credible accident data because they can't find any either.

The real risk is by focusing on just 'noise makers,' effective accident prevention systems such as radar and camera based systems are being ignored. These systems work not only for hybrids but all vehicles to reduce not only vehicle-pedestrian accidents but vehicle-vehicle accidents.

This effort seeks to legislate the least effective solution for a very narrow group, 5 blind fatalities out of 4,700 pedestrian fatalities per year, less 0.1%. There comes a time when sensible people need to spend time and resources on what works for everyone.

The USA National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) looked at this problem June 23, 2008 and held a hearing. The opposition research is available from the record found at www.regulations.gov by searching for NHTSA-2008-0108-0020. The supporting legislation, H.R. 734 and S. 841 needs to be stopped.

Bob Wilson, Huntsville AL

Bob Wilson

[fgp]

during my testimony before congress i forgot to mention that the prius has a horn!!! it does? oh, so you can signal blind folks, drunks, fools and children that they are walking into you. imagine that,
fred from nashville

[bredekamp]

Sorry. Didn't mean to preach, but silly laws makes me cross.

[mstrkoffee]

Originally Posted by bredekamp

Sorry. Didn't mean to preach, but silly laws makes me cross.

I'm up for my car emitting a radio frequency that can be received to a warning device for blind people short range- put a noise maker on my car and I'll be removing it quite promptly. Kids will learn to adapt just the same way they can use a computer.

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by mstrkoffee

I'm up for my car emitting a radio frequency that can be received to a warning device for blind people short range- put a noise maker on my car and I'll be removing it quite promptly. Kids will learn to adapt just the same way they can use a computer.

How about a strong microwave field. If a pedestrian suddenly feels hot, they will know to look for a Prius.

Tom

[Blauer Glimmer]

Originally Posted by qbee42

How about a strong microwave field. If a pedestrian suddenly feels hot, they will know to look for a Prius.

Tom

Ummm... Women of a certain age will not notice

[The Electric Me]

I don't know exactly how I feel about this. While I understand that Prius owners seem to take some enjoyment or satisfaction from the quiet operation of their vehicles, especially in EV mode, I can't in all honesty say that the idea that The Prius is in many situations is quieter than the average car isn't a reality. Can I then speculate that in a certain situation, such as a neighborhood side street, driveway that children and/or people, blind or otherwise, that are "programmed" to hear a regular gasoline combustion engine, might not hear the silent running of a Prius? Hard for me to discount this reality even if I think it inmaterial. That's why the idea of a noisemaker continues to be raised.

What bothers me is that it seems to be another move away from personal responsibility. In my neighborhood, residential urban, there are several painted pedestrian crosswalks. These are Non-Traffic light, simply painted zones for pedestrians to cross. The concept being that if as a driver, you see a Pedestrian about to cross or crossing, you respect the crosswalk and of course allow the pedestrian to cross. ....I hate them.

Too many "Pedestrians" loiter in the entrance. Sometimes crossing, or sometimes just hanging out on the corner. I've stopped several times, only to have the person look at me askance and motion me to continue because evidently they just wanted to stand in the entrance.

Or the converse is true, I've been driving my 3000lb auto at 20 miles per hour, the posted speed, and I'll be right up on an empty crosswalk, only to have someone suddenly charge out into the crosswalk with indignant impunity. I either slam on my brakes or zoom pass them...either action resulting in dirty looks from the pedestrian who evidently has no concept of physics and the reality of stopping distance or time.

The worst is the crosswalk and the two way street. How many times have I stopped only to see the pedestrian start to walk out into the cross walk while I watch the approaching car coming in the opposite direction obviously not slowing down or deciding to stop. I am now the front row spectator to what might be a horrible tragedy, initiated because I stopped, the pedestrian continued but the other car doesn't see or care. So far before I have to make a 911 call, either the driver or pedestrian has figured out what is happening and avoided disaster. But there have been some very close calls.

Okay, this has turned into mostly an Off Topic rant. But it really isn't. Because my point is that we build or expect these semi-safeguards. That IMO often make things actually less safe.

Is it safer, if people actually don't have the supposed safety of a crosswalk and are simply alert to the traffic and approaching cars? Often times I think so.

Would it be safer, for parents simply to tell Children to be on guard for automobiles wherever they might be, and explain that some are loud, but some are very quiet, so they need to look and be aware, ALWAYS.

No, we want the semi-safeguard. The noisemaker, the crosswalk. And I'm not convinced that it doesn't create a situation where people don't take responsibilty or want to take responsibilty.

In England, In London, mostly for tourists, they paint at most crosswalks an arrow and the instructions to look for traffic approaching from the opposite direction. Because American tourists are so programmed to look the other way, that it is very easy for them to forget, look the wrong way and step right out infront of a car. My feeling is it's nice, and probably has saved lives. But who is responsible? As a Tourist, if the warning did not exist, it's still my responsibilty to be alert and understand I'm in an enviroment where people drive on the opposite side of the road compared to what I'm use to seeing. If I did look the wrong way and step infront of a car, it would still be my fault.

It's hard really to fault the concept behind a noisemaker, or a crosswalk, or a warning painted on the ground to look the opposite way. But at some point don't we need to simply take responsibilty for our own safety as pedestrians or drivers? The world is a dynamic place everything can be dangerous and comes with a level of risk. We fool ourselves into thinking we can make it perfectly safe, and sometimes that in of itself becomes one of the greatest dangers.

Thanks for letting me rant...and please don't charge into a crosswalk and/or loiter in the entrance if you aren't going to cross.

[TonyPSchaefer]

Originally Posted by Blauer Glimmer

Ummm... Women of a certain age will not notice

Turns out Prii are also hard to see. How many times have women of certain ages felt warm but not seen a Prius anywhere near?

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by TonyPSchaefer

Turns out Prii are also hard to see. How many times have women of certain ages felt warm but not seen a Prius anywhere near?

That happens when you stealth in a Prius.

Tom