Wheel Alignment Issues?

[e28to08Prius]

Hey all, I've been registered for a few years but this is my first post. I've seen a few posts on this subject but none I feel that help me directly.

I replaced my original POS Integrity's (at 38k) from my 08 Prius this past weekend with ComforTreads and had an alignment done. Although the ComforTreads are a MUCH better ride, I now struggle to keep the car going a in a straight line down the highway. I'm constantly making mini-adjustments to keep `er straight and things feel strange around corners and definitely when braking...I can be holding the wheel straight when braking but the car may pull right or left. The car don't have play in the steering, but it's acting that way

When first on the rack, toe readings were -0.13 front (.06 left / -0.19 right) and -0.06 rear (0.12 left / 0.25 right). My step-dad, who owns an `05 Prius, said it's best to ask for a slight toe-in of 0.05 when getting an alignment on these..., so that's what I asked for.

As you can gather, that front/right was off pretty bad (but it drove better than it does now, believe it or not) and they said they couldn't do anything w/the rear, of course. However, the 'after' read out makes it seem they only adjusted the front/right wheel as that was the only reading that changed from the initial check...they put it to 0.05 and changed the caster from -0.84 to -0.80, leaving the front/left at 0.06 and the caster at -1.11.

My step-dad's theory is "they just adjusted one side, when they should have centered the steering wheel and then adjust both sides to be in the +.05 range for each tire, otherwise the way they did it would uncenter the steering wheel and possibly make the 'steering assist' power steering hunt for center...which may account for the feeling of play in the steering." Any of you agree w/that?

Of course, the service rep. says that he didn't do it that way (TiresPlus)...but then why wouldn't they put the left to 0.05 as I asked, ya know? Could the caster settings I explained be a prob. too?

Anyway, I'm bringing it back tomorrow...really don't know what to tell this guy other than my suspicions. Based on where the rears are now, is the slight toe-in still a good idea or should I go w/factory spec? Should I get Galaxee's Shim Kit base on my current rear toe? Any suggestions/advise would be much appreciated...I really know nothing about alignment. HELP!

[dogfriend]

2007 Model Alignment issues

I think your step-dad is correct; they should straighten out the steering and toe-in each side equally. Also, if you have VSC, they should perform a Zero Point VSC calibration if they adjust the front toe-in.

But I think your problem may be the rear toe difference - that seemed to be the biggest issue when my car had the squirrely highway handling. You can adjust the rear toe using shims - either custom made like Galaxee's DH provides, or an aftermarket plastic shim which has become available since I shimmed my RH rear hub.

BTW, I drove today with 30+mph crosswinds and had no problems with stability with the rear toe-in fixed and Michelin tires to replace the original POS tires. The wind will push the car, but no need to make multiple steering corrections.

[e28to08Prius]

Originally Posted by dogfriend

2007 Model Alignment issues

I think your step-dad is correct; they should straighten out the steering and toe-in each side equally. Also, if you have VSC, they should perform a Zero Point VSC calibration if they adjust the front toe-in.

But I think your problem may be the rear toe difference - that seemed to be the biggest issue when my car had the squirrely highway handling. You can adjust the rear toe using shims - either custom made like Galaxee's DH provides, or an aftermarket plastic shim which has become available since I shimmed my RH rear hub.

BTW, I drove today with 30+mph crosswinds and had no problems with stability with the rear toe-in fixed and Michelin tires to replace the original POS tires. The wind will push the car, but no need to make multiple steering corrections.

Thank you for your response! Is performing a "Zero Point VSC calibration" part of a normal alignment on cars with VSC now? Or is that only done at the dealer? I mean, a shop that says they are 'alignment specialists' should know what that is if I request that right?

[dogfriend]

Originally Posted by e28to08Prius

Thank you for your response! Is performing a "Zero Point VSC calibration" part of a normal alignment on cars with VSC now? Or is that only done at the dealer? I mean, a shop that says they are 'alignment specialists' should know what that is if I request that right?

Yes, the last step for the front toe-in adjustment is to "Perform VSC system calibration". The shop will have to have a Toyota scan tool or equivalent to communicate with the Skid Control ECU and the procedure from the Toyota service manual. Normally this would be done at a dealer, but a savvy independent shop may also be able to do it. If you ask your shop and they give you a blank stare, then they don't know what it is and they won't be able to do it.

[e28to08Prius]

Originally Posted by dogfriend

Yes, the last step for the front toe-in adjustment is to "Perform VSC system calibration". The shop will have to have a Toyota scan tool or equivalent to communicate with the Skid Control ECU and the procedure from the Toyota service manual. Normally this would be done at a dealer, but a savvy independent shop may also be able to do it. If you ask your shop and they give you a blank stare, then they don't know what it is and they won't be able to do it.

Thanks again, but you are probably more on w/the rear alignment suspicians thought...Galaxee responded to an email of mine saying that my rear #'s were WAY OFF...more than any shim kit could fix. I emailed a PDF of the readings and am awaiting advice. Almost wonder if I should put settings back to the 'check' readings...perhaps that compensated? I got just over 38k on my original Integrities (more than most, I'm told), there were no bad wear patterns...other than both edges being bald, but smooth...even though tires were over-inflated. I don't know.

[The Critic]

The LF toe was fine at 0.06 degrees. Since you wanted a slight toe-in of 0.05 degrees on the RF, it only made sense to keep the LF toe where it was to prevent any issues. Sometimes, the differences in toe from side-to-side will cause the vehicle to pull.

As for the rear toe, yours is not too far out of spec to be adjusted by a shim. Moog Part #K66601 is $7 on RockAuto and will provide 1/4 degree of camber/toe adjust for the rear. That should help a bit with the RR.

Also, Caster usually can't be adjusted. However, caster won't cause a tire wear problem. And I doubt it's causing your pull here. Lastly, I don't see any camber readings in your posts. Cross-camber will sometimes cause a pull. I prefer to keep cross-camber at less than 1/2 degree, so what are your camber readings?

[dogfriend]

Originally Posted by e28to08Prius

When first on the rack, toe readings were -0.13 front (.06 left / -0.19 right) and -0.06 rear (0.12 left / 0.25 right).

Is the actual rear toe negative (toed out) or positive (toed in)? If negative, then both rear wheels need correction. If positive (toed in) then you would just need to shim the right rear to match the left rear.

I am assuming the readings above are in degrees.

[e28to08Prius]

Originally Posted by The Critic

The LF toe was fine at 0.06 degrees. Since you wanted a slight toe-in of 0.05 degrees on the RF, it only made sense to keep the LF toe where it was to prevent any issues. Sometimes, the differences in toe from side-to-side will cause the vehicle to pull.

As for the rear toe, yours is not too far out of spec to be adjusted by a shim. Moog Part #K66601 is $7 on RockAuto and will provide 1/4 degree of camber/toe adjust for the rear. That should help a bit with the RR.

Also, Caster usually can't be adjusted. However, caster won't cause a tire wear problem. And I doubt it's causing your pull here. Lastly, I don't see any camber readings in your posts. Cross-camber will sometimes cause a pull. I prefer to keep cross-camber at less than 1/2 degree, so what are your camber readings?

Like I said, 1st post...figured out how to attach, here's a PDF of the readings. 1st pg. is performed alignment, 2nd pg. is the initial alignment check. Thank you for your response/help!

[e28to08Prius]

Originally Posted by dogfriend

Is the actual rear toe negative (toed out) or positive (toed in)? If negative, then both rear wheels need correction. If positive (toed in) then you would just need to shim the right rear to match the left rear.

I am assuming the readings above are in degrees.

Yes, degrees...and I don't know, to me the front #'s add up. But they don't give a total toe for the rears...just 0.12 L and 0.25 R. The Rear Right toe in seems excessive, not? Since no negative mark, I guess that'd be (toe in). I attached the PDF alignment readings in a post to 'thecritic' in this thread if you'd wanna have a look.

Otherwise, I just got off the phone w/the dealer and they said that Zero Calibration on the VSC can be crucial for the Prius...and it could be a combonation of the elect. steering assist hunting for center if TiresPlus didn't center it properly too. So I'm gonna go back to TP tonight and say "Zero VSC Calibration" and "Steering Assist" and if I get a blank stare I'm going to demand my money back and make an appt. w/the dealer. But then I've read so many bad things about guys bringing their alignment issue to the dealer on here too. Still haven't heard back from Galaxee either, hopefully will by end of day.

[e28to08Prius]

Originally Posted by The Critic

The LF toe was fine at 0.06 degrees. Since you wanted a slight toe-in of 0.05 degrees on the RF, it only made sense to keep the LF toe where it was to prevent any issues. Sometimes, the differences in toe from side-to-side will cause the vehicle to pull.

As for the rear toe, yours is not too far out of spec to be adjusted by a shim. Moog Part #K66601 is $7 on RockAuto and will provide 1/4 degree of camber/toe adjust for the rear. That should help a bit with the RR.

Also, Caster usually can't be adjusted. However, caster won't cause a tire wear problem. And I doubt it's causing your pull here. Lastly, I don't see any camber readings in your posts. Cross-camber will sometimes cause a pull. I prefer to keep cross-camber at less than 1/2 degree, so what are your camber readings?

Thanks! Do you have any weigh-in on them perhaps not centering the wheel (or properly) to throw off the elect. steering assist...or the Zero VSC Calibration? Perhaps Galaxee thought my figures were in inches, not degrees (should've specified). If a shim can fix 1/4 degree, that isn't too bad...I will look up RockAuto! I also attached a PDF of the readouts in my previous reply to you if you care to take a look? Much appreciated...and that goes for everyone!