Too Quiet?

[barbaram]

Lets show the NY Times the power of Prius owners!

Read and comment!

The Ninth Annual Year in Ideas - Magazine - NYTimes.com

[dogfriend]

Originally Posted by barbaram

Read and comment!

I read it. I would like to see a link to the study that shows that hybrids and electrics are twice as likely to injure pedestrians. I haven't seen that study yet, and I remain skeptical about it.

I believe there are many ICE cars that are as quiet as the Prius, so I don't believe this is an effective solution to the problem, (whether the problem is imaginary or real).

[jry423]

That's dumb. People who are walking calmly or riding their bike are generally going to look before they cross. I do it. It's instinct. A kid who is running around like a crazy person isn't going to hear a Prius, a bus, a semi... Probably would hear a train. Maybe we should install train horns that constantly honk, that way an otherwise sedate Prius driver with slow reaction time will still give warning. One of the things I LIKE about my Prius is that its quiet.

[juzernev]

Well, apply fake motor noisy to bikes too, they are too quiet when they comes from right behind when I'm in a traffic jam...

A moving prius is big enough to detect if the pedestrian is not blind... or stupid

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by dogfriend

I read it. I would like to see a link to the study that shows that hybrids and electrics are twice as likely to injure pedestrians. I haven't seen that study yet, and I remain skeptical about it.

The study is "Incidence of Pedestrian and Bicyclists Crashes by Hybrid Electric Passenger Vehicles" (DOT HS 811 204, September 2009) and can be downloaded from the NHTSA web site. I would recommend reading it and forming your own opinions about it and then we can compare notes.

Originally Posted by dogfriend

I believe there are many ICE cars that are as quiet as the Prius, so I don't believe this is an effective solution to the problem, (whether the problem is imaginary or real).

The NHTSA held a hearing June 23, 2008 on this subject and I was there. The official records are at http://www.regulations.gov (search NHTSA-2008-0108-0020) as is our response, both mine, Chris Hogan, and the invited audio experts.

Les Bloomberg of Noise Clearing House pointed out that cars today 'hide in the noise.' The level of traffic noise is such that ordinary cars are already masked by noise and adding more does not make it better. He called it the 'Cocktail Party Effect' that leads to higher and higher noise levels without improving understanding. I call it a race for cacophony and the pending legislation H.R. 734 and S. 841 are marching to that cliff.

The blind have an access problem, which they think adding more noise solves. Sad to say, there is no credible accident data showing that is the case. Even this flawed NHTSA study failed to include the real killers, SUVs and pickups. Something that is not evident in a direct reading.

Bob Wilson

[dogfriend]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

The study is "Incidence of Pedestrian and Bicyclists Crashes by Hybrid Electric Passenger Vehicles" (DOT HS 811 204, September 2009) and can be downloaded from the NHTSA web site. I would recommend reading it and forming your own opinions about it and then we can compare notes.

Thanks Bob. I read DOT HS 811 204 and then read your notes. My thoughts:

1. They admit that the sample size is very small and my thought is that the percentage difference of 0.3 (0.9 vs 0.6) might just be noise with a larger sample size.

2. Your argument that they should normalize using miles driven rather than # of incidents is a very good point and would likely change the result.

3. The assumption that the noise level is the only factor in pedestrian vs Prius (or pedestrian vs. ICE) is a bad assumption. In fact, I wonder if the visibility from the 2nd Gen Prius (due to its unique front windshield and rear hatch configuration) might be a more significant factor in low speed "incidents".

[bwilson4web]

There is one other thing that I recently discovered when researching backover accidents. The "Carmeron Gulibransen Kids Transportation Safety Act" has joined the official USA regulations web site:

search: NHTSA-2009-0041

. . . While all passenger vehicle types (cars, sport utility vehicles, pickups, and vans) are involved in backover fatalities and injuries, the data indicate that backover fatality numbers show pickup trucks (72 of 288) and utility vehicles (68 of 228) to be overrepresented when compared to all non-backing traffic injury crashes and to their proportion to the passenger vehicle fleet. . . .

SUVs and pickup trucks were omitted from this flawed, NHTSA report. But the right hand of the NHTSA is looking at the real data.

Bob Wilson