So this jerk-off says...

jtmhog · 07-14-2005, 11:46 AM

For Johnycat 26:

The Civic hybrid does not shut down at stop lights; the Insight shuts down at stop lights. The redesigned 06 Cvic hybrid will close the valves and shut off fuel flow but, the eingine will continue to spin at stop lights.

jtmhog · 07-14-2005, 11:50 AM

Even the CEO of Toyota says hybrids doesn't make economic sense for Americans. The return on investment period is too long due to relatively low gas prices.

popsrcr · 07-14-2005, 11:54 AM

>>You go from a vechicle that costs 35K and costs $300/mo. in gas to a 24K vehicle that costs $60/mo. in gas, there you have a MPG solution<<

I don't think you'll see that unless you're interested in emissions, but that's just my opinion. A 35k car is waaaaay nicer than a Prius.

Also, I contest your mpg. Its great you may get 58mpg, but I've never seen anything higher than a very brief 50, and mostly we get 42. I've seen a lot of posts that would agree with me. Still tho, 42 IS better than 18, but when you only drive 5k a year, it takes a long time for it to be worth it.

Jonnycat26 · 07-14-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

>>You go from a vechicle that costs 35K and costs $300/mo. in gas to a 24K vehicle that costs $60/mo. in gas, there you have a MPG solution<<

I don't think you'll see that unless you're interested in emissions, but that's just my opinion. A 35k car is waaaaay nicer than a Prius.

I don't even know that you have to go that far... most 20K cars are waaaaay nicer than the prius, and quite a few of them get 30mpg or more. The Accord 4cyl gets 34mpg on the highway and costs 23K. Is the extra milage penalty worth the fact that it's a nicer car? Hard to decide. A year ago I would have said the Prius is worth the premium. But with more hybrids on the scene, I'm not so sure the Prius makes as much sense anymore.

**Tideland Prius** · 07-14-2005, 12:04 PM

Well I've met another Prius owner here. His other car is a Germany-imported 190E series (i.e. euro-spec). His Prius is a silver with Nav Pack and leather, heated and massaginf front AND rear seats, has a set of PIAA foglights and has a disorganised interior lol. Anyway, the point is, people have different reasons for getting a Prius. Some it's fuel economy, others it's emissions or the cool factor or the toys and so on. I've noticed it's those who drive/can afford cars <CDN$20,000 that pooh-pooh the Prius (not to be discriminative but that seems to be the trend)

Mystery Squid · 07-14-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

>>You go from a vechicle that costs 35K and costs $300/mo. in gas to a 24K vehicle that costs $60/mo. in gas, there you have a MPG solution<<

I don't think you'll see that unless you're interested in emissions, but that's just my opinion. A 35k car is waaaaay nicer than a Prius.

Also, I contest your mpg. Its great you may get 58mpg, but I've never seen anything higher than a very brief 50, and mostly we get 42. I've seen a lot of posts that would agree with me. Still tho, 42 IS better than 18, but when you only drive 5k a year, it takes a long time for it to be worth it.

Sure, it's way nicer... but that introduces a whole other dimension...

Anyway, as for you contesting my MPG's, every tank I've used since I bought the car back in May has consistently yielded me 55-60mpg (a good mix of city/highway driving), and I can prove it with pics. And that's been about 6 tanks... I'm not sure what to tell you if you're hovering around 42, looks like you might not be making the most out of cruising/maintaining speed only using the electric engine (just guessing here). Work on letting up on the gas pedal with respect to topography... And I don't "put around" either...

FWIW, I've averaged 25K miles a year consistenly for the past 5 years or so.

Mystery Squid · 07-14-2005, 12:21 PM

Of course, there is a psychological dimension here no one has brought up...

When you buy the car, that's one transaction. You spend the money, and BOOM, it's gone in one day. Psychologically, it's out of your mind shortly thereafter, HOWEVER, you feel good about repeatedly spending less at the pump, where time and time again you're reminded how much less your spending on gas...

What I spent on my Prius, is gone. That money is an obscure memory now. I USED to be at the gas station twice a week, swiping my card into the reader knowing that every swipe cost me $50, time and time again. Now, I go to the station maybe once a week, and every time I swipe that card, I feel a lot of relief knowing the most I'm going to spend is about $22 (at least for now!). The idea of savings is re-inforced time and time again, right there, in real time.

:mrgreen:

Mystery Squid · 07-14-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

I don't even know that you have to go that far... most 20K cars are waaaaay nicer than the prius, and quite a few of them get 30mpg or more. The Accord 4cyl gets 34mpg on the highway and costs 23K. Is the extra milage penalty worth the fact that it's a nicer car? Hard to decide. A year ago I would have said the Prius is worth the premium. But with more hybrids on the scene, I'm not so sure the Prius makes as much sense anymore.

No, you don't have to go that far, I was using a, more or less, arbitrary example.

I will agree you don't have to go that far though... My mom has a 4 cyl. Accord, and I love driving it whenever I'm down visting her.

Although I do have to ask, why is "more hybrids on the scene" lowering the "sense" factor?

Jonnycat26 · 07-14-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Although I do have to ask, why is "more hybrids on the scene" lowering the "sense" factor?

Well, let's say the upcoming Fusion hybrid from Ford gets 42mpg, and this is probably quite a low guess, which I believe is a safe assumption because it uses the same powertrain as the Escape hybrid (4 cyl + 94hp elec) and that gets 38mpg and should weigh a bit more (and not to mention isn't nearly as aerodynamic as the sedan will be). So lower milage than the Prius but from the pictures it has a much nicer interior. And I can't believe any car will ever top the Prius in the department of "hard and cheap plastic", so that's another plus. A more powerful engine and handling that doesn't remind you of a bar of wet soap, plusses. So if it costs as much as the Escape hybrid (27K-30K), it's a decent car. If it costs less, it's a fantastic deal.

Same goes for the upcoming Altima hybrid. If you've been in an Altima you know it's got loads of plastic, but it's not the hard brittle stuff that's in the Prius.

So a year ago, the Prius was the best deal in Hybrid cars, hands down. This time next year, I don't think it will be anymore.

popsrcr · 07-14-2005, 01:22 PM

>><Sure, it's way nicer... but that introduces a whole other dimension... <<

My point was, I don't think you're going to step down from a 35k car to a prius on mileage alone. It has to be on emissions, and frankly most people don't care about that.

To back up a minute, the original reason I posted was the title of the thread - "So this jerk-off says..." and you go on to pretend how superior your knowledge is. If we believe the true value of the hybrid (right now anyway) is its advantage on emissions, that attitude will do nothing to further a "green" cause.

Again, my commute is 3 miles one way. I can drive a hummer and it hardly matters. I'm lucky.

07-14-2005, 11:46 AM	#21
jtmhog Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 151 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: Base Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Friends: 0	Re: So this jerk-off says... For Johnycat 26: The Civic hybrid does not shut down at stop lights; the Insight shuts down at stop lights. The redesigned 06 Cvic hybrid will close the valves and shut off fuel flow but, the eingine will continue to spin at stop lights.

07-14-2005, 12:04 PM	#25
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 19,633 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 229 Thanked 345 Times in 244 Posts Friends: 23	Well I've met another Prius owner here. His other car is a Germany-imported 190E series (i.e. euro-spec). His Prius is a silver with Nav Pack and leather, heated and massaginf front AND rear seats, has a set of PIAA foglights and has a disorganised interior lol. Anyway, the point is, people have different reasons for getting a Prius. Some it's fuel economy, others it's emissions or the cool factor or the toys and so on. I've noticed it's those who drive/can afford cars <CDN$20,000 that pooh-pooh the Prius (not to be discriminative but that seems to be the trend) __________________ 2005 Tideland Pearl Premium Package 25/10/04 VVT-i Emblem, Sport Pedals, All-Weather Mats, Cargo Mat, EV Mod, JDM Prius Footwell Lighting, DICE iPod Kit 2008 Deep Black smart fortwo passion coupé - sold (6.1L/100km) 2010 Blue Ribbon Metallic Technology Package 29/08/09 All-Weather Mats, Homemade Console Pads, LED lighting "Ask an Expert" on Facebook I am not employed by Toyota, and the opinions expressed by me as a Prius Expert are not those of Toyota.

07-14-2005, 12:21 PM	#27
Mystery Squid Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Friends: 0	Re: So this jerk-off says... Of course, there is a psychological dimension here no one has brought up... When you buy the car, that's one transaction. You spend the money, and BOOM, it's gone in one day. Psychologically, it's out of your mind shortly thereafter, HOWEVER, you feel good about repeatedly spending less at the pump, where time and time again you're reminded how much less your spending on gas... What I spent on my Prius, is gone. That money is an obscure memory now. I USED to be at the gas station twice a week, swiping my card into the reader knowing that every swipe cost me $50, time and time again. Now, I go to the station maybe once a week, and every time I swipe that card, I feel a lot of relief knowing the most I'm going to spend is about $22 (at least for now!). The idea of savings is re-inforced time and time again, right there, in real time. :mrgreen:

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07-14-2005, 11:50 AM	#22
jtmhog Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 151 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: Base Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Friends: 0	Even the CEO of Toyota says hybrids doesn't make economic sense for Americans. The return on investment period is too long due to relatively low gas prices.

07-14-2005, 11:54 AM	#23
popsrcr Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 232 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	>>You go from a vechicle that costs 35K and costs $300/mo. in gas to a 24K vehicle that costs $60/mo. in gas, there you have a MPG solution<< I don't think you'll see that unless you're interested in emissions, but that's just my opinion. A 35k car is waaaaay nicer than a Prius. Also, I contest your mpg. Its great you may get 58mpg, but I've never seen anything higher than a very brief 50, and mostly we get 42. I've seen a lot of posts that would agree with me. Still tho, 42 IS better than 18, but when you only drive 5k a year, it takes a long time for it to be worth it.

07-14-2005, 01:22 PM	#30
popsrcr Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 232 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	>><Sure, it's way nicer... but that introduces a whole other dimension... << My point was, I don't think you're going to step down from a 35k car to a prius on mileage alone. It has to be on emissions, and frankly most people don't care about that. To back up a minute, the original reason I posted was the title of the thread - "So this jerk-off says..." and you go on to pretend how superior your knowledge is. If we believe the true value of the hybrid (right now anyway) is its advantage on emissions, that attitude will do nothing to further a "green" cause. Again, my commute is 3 miles one way. I can drive a hummer and it hardly matters. I'm lucky.