First Morning with a Blocked Grill

[JimboK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Dec 19 2006, 03:26 PM) [snapback]364278[/snapback]</div>

Note that my install is a bit different than what Tony described.
[/b]

Maybe it's just the way it appears in the photos, but your insulation material appears different too. Tony appears to have foam insulation (nearly identical to mine in appearance and installation technique), whereas yours appears to be sort of a rubberized material. Am I interpreting your pics correctly? If so, it would seem that that insulation might be more flexible and therefore lend itself a little better to your technique, which I like if it will work without zip ties. It seems simpler and quicker, and looks a little cleaner.

[donee]

Hi All,

I have been using 3/4 in pipe insulation on the lower grill. Cut into about 9 inch lengths, the lengths fit onto the grill horizontal bars, between the verticals. So, one can leave open the left side slits to allow for keep flow on the inverter, and cut it off over the engine.

The 3/4 in size fits perfectly into the grill slits and the 9 inch lengths can be installed, and removed and stored in the glove box in seconds.

[efusco]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboK @ Dec 19 2006, 09:44 PM) [snapback]364426[/snapback]</div>

Maybe it's just the way it appears in the photos, but your insulation material appears different too. Tony appears to have foam insulation (nearly identical to mine in appearance and installation technique), whereas yours appears to be sort of a rubberized material. Am I interpreting your pics correctly? If so, it would seem that that insulation might be more flexible and therefore lend itself a little better to your technique, which I like if it will work without zip ties. It seems simpler and quicker, and looks a little cleaner. [/b]

Yea, there were two types, the one I got cost a bit more but seemed more durable and flexible. The kind Tony has was there and I was afraid it was going to be too brittle.

[TonyPSchaefer]

Also please note that I got mine from Wayne. He gave it to me claiming that I owe him $2.00. In post number 10 he said that it was on sale for $0.99. I think I was ripped off!

Also, the technique I pictured above is compliments of Wayne. I can not in good conscious even try to take credit for it. But I can learn to live with a guilty conscious!

[TheForce]

Thanks for the pics. I would like to give this a try but I think I will wait until I get a can-view so I can monitor the temps. Maybe next year.

[donee]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Dec 20 2006, 12:40 AM) [snapback]364423[/snapback]</div>

I need a reality check please.

The thermostat in the engine is supposed to close when the coolant is too cold (and open when too warm) such that the radiator cannot deliver "cold" coolant to the engine. What is the purpose of blocking air to the engine/radiator? Is the engine itself efficient enough at losing heat?
[/b]

Hi Display,

Evan answers the bulk of your question above. But one comment about your last question. The engine is designed to be very good at turning heat into shaft power. As such its not as good as an Otto cycle engine at turning gasoline combustion energy into heat. This is the same situation with turbo-diesels (even more so), as more of the diesel fuel combustion energy is turned into shaft power. This is why over-the-road diesel trucks use winter-fronts.

Still, climbing a mountain in the desert, the engine is at full power, and needs all that cooling area openings, as the car is at slow speed and full torque.

But driving around in the city/suburban situation in sub freezing weather, with the battery doing allot of slow speed and shallow down hill motivation, the engine cools down. With the heater on, the computer will keep the engine running to make up the heat, even when the car is not moving.

What is probably needed is a computer controlled door in front of the radiator openings. It would close the door at startup, and slow speed driving, and open the door a calibrated amount based on engine load running average, speed and temp, with full openings occuring at any engine, inverter coolant or transaxle temp or outdoor temp limits. This complicated a thing would also need an manometer across the door to be sure the door is opening when its commanded to.

[Cheap!]

So if you use these and have a bra, would you call these padded bras?

[dreichla]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Dec 19 2006, 09:34 AM) [snapback]364119[/snapback]</div>

...
Keep in mind, also, that I have packed fiberglass insulation around the ICE under the hood for additional heat retention.
...
[/b]

Evan,

1. Could you take a picture of your insulation around the ICE as well? What are you using - standard fiberglass batt insulation one uses in house framing?

2. What is the 2nd cord coming out of your lower grill? I assume one is for the block heater?

Thanks

[Rick Grahn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Dec 19 2006, 11:28 PM) [snapback]364439[/snapback]</div>

Hi Display,

Evan answers the bulk of your question above. But one comment about your last question. The engine is designed to be very good at turning heat into shaft power. As such its not as good as an Otto cycle engine at turning gasoline combustion energy into heat. This is the same situation with turbo-diesels (even more so), as more of the diesel fuel combustion energy is turned into shaft power. This is why over-the-road diesel trucks use winter-fronts.

Still, climbing a mountain in the desert, the engine is at full power, and needs all that cooling area openings, as the car is at slow speed and full torque.

But driving around in the city/suburban situation in sub freezing weather, with the battery doing allot of slow speed and shallow down hill motivation, the engine cools down. With the heater on, the computer will keep the engine running to make up the heat, even when the car is not moving.

What is probably needed is a computer controlled door in front of the radiator openings. It would close the door at startup, and slow speed driving, and open the door a calibrated amount based on engine load running average, speed and temp, with full openings occuring at any engine, inverter coolant or transaxle temp or outdoor temp limits. This complicated a thing would also need an manometer across the door to be sure the door is opening when its commanded to.
[/b]

I appreciate this description. I've been contemplating this mod but 90% of my driving is at highway (65-75MPH) speeds and I drive several hours at a time. Based on this description, is it a safe assumption that it may not benefit my mileage that much?

[efusco]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dreichla @ Dec 20 2006, 05:33 AM) [snapback]364507[/snapback]</div>

Evan,

1. Could you take a picture of your insulation around the ICE as well? What are you using - standard fiberglass batt insulation one uses in house framing?

2. What is the 2nd cord coming out of your lower grill? I assume one is for the block heater?

Thanks [/b]

I'll try to do that later, but it won't tell you much. If you open your hood you'll see the small gap in front of the ICE and b/w the ICE and the Inverter/MG2. Essentially I stuffed some standard fiberglass insulaton in there...they sold some stuff about 2" thick on a 6' roll at Home Depot designed to stuff in various gaps in you house to stop small drafts. That's what I used. The trickies and probably most effective spot that I put the insulation was from the underside of the car on the back side of the ICE just below the manifold...no way I can get a photo of that without putting the car up on ramps...and that ain't gonna happen just for a photo.

*Disclaimer--Shoving the insulation in there may have little or no benefitial effects. It could block something important. It could catch fire. I don't recommend it at all unless you can monitor ICE temps closely with CAN-View or similar.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rick Grahn @ Dec 20 2006, 05:38 AM) [snapback]364508[/snapback]</div>

I appreciate this description. I've been contemplating this mod but 90% of my driving is at highway (65-75MPH) speeds and I drive several hours at a time. Based on this description, is it a safe assumption that it may not benefit my mileage that much?
[/b]

Yea, probably little benefit. If/when it's really cold you might wanna do it, but it's unlikely to have a big impact.