PHEV mod under way, Bristol, UK.

[dmckinstry]

Originally Posted by Flying White Dutchman

he! nikki

here is a pictures off my NG3 zivan!!
got it yesterday!

edit : its freezing outside!!
o well.. be hard or go home

Darn! You'll have a full charge before me now. I won't be back to my Prius before tomorrow some time.

Have fun.

Dave M.

[Flying White Dutchman]

did a partial first charge today!
only its freezing outside so the ICE want to kick in all the timedamm ICE


tomorrow i will try a full charger
i also did a upper full grill block today and going to see if i can do a full tomorrow
temp are not helping when working outside


he nikki already a bit better?

[dmckinstry]

Originally Posted by Flying White Dutchman

did a partial first charge today!
only its freezing outside so the ICE want to kick in all the timedamm ICE


tomorrow i will try a full charger
i also did a upper full grill block today and going to see if i can do a full tomorrow
temp are not helping when working outside


he nikki already a bit better?

Just a brief update. I haven't seen a report from you yet, but...

I did a partial charge on Monday and pulled the plug on the charger, since I needed to run an errand. I quit, as the car started and pushed the voltage up. I'd had the car on so I could monitor the voltage, current and temperature using CAN-View. I couldn't drive very far without the engine starting, but in 13 miles I averaged 126 mpg (according to CAN-View). After I got back, I started to charge again, but it shut down within a few hours, with only about 232 V indicated. I let it sit overnight, and in the morning had a bunch of warning lights (even through the car did start). CAN-View indicated the battery temperature was 139F. The external batteries didn't get above 89F (according to and indoor/outdoor thermometer I was using.) The temperature seemed to stay at 139F for over an hour, but then started to drop. When it got down to 109 F I reset the DTCs and all errors went away. No problems on the internal battery since then. So, I don't know if there was a clitch in the temperature reading or something else. The internal resistance of the combination of parallel packs was still around 0.11 ohm, so the internal battery wasn't actually destroyed. Although, it may have been weakened. I won't know that until I test the OEM battery pack independently of the other packs.

I did disconnect the external packs, and the internal resistance of the OEM battery was 0.25 ohms, which has been normal for it.

I'm out of the country on a vacation (holiday for Europeans I guess) for a week. I'm not going to do anymore testing, until I get back and can have an external set of measurements of current, voltage and temperature when I do the charging.

Dave M.

[aminorjourney]

Dave,

Please tell me you were using cooling on those additional packs?

I suspect the guilty party here is not enough cooling on those packs. I would suggest constant forced ventilation while charging and as Norm has suggested, for several hours afterwards. What was the final voltage you are charging to?

You'll also notice that pack temperature when you have been heavily using the pack to be higher than if you had not been using it. 139 degrees F is 59 degrees C! That's hot! Do you know what the temperature of the pack was when you returned from your trip? The highest I've seen my OEM pack get while driving (a long downhill with lots of high power regen) is 55 degrees C or 131 Degrees F. Above 45 degrees C (113 F) EV mode won't engage.



Nikki.

[Flying White Dutchman]

HI

what was your outside temp?
you charged the pack and then went for a drive!
and after that charged the pack again
i think it got hot because you did not gave it any time to settle down.

outside here is freezing the pack never reached 8celsius.
i did a full charge
also did a cell voltage measurement unloaded and loaded.

nikki did you already connect the bms+?

[aminorjourney]

Originally Posted by Flying White Dutchman

HI

what was your outside temp?
you charged the pack and then went for a drive!
and after that charged the pack again
i think it got hot because you did not gave it any time to settle down.

I concur. I think your battery pack was probably fairly hot when you returned from your little trip and recharging it again pushed it over the top. What current are you charging at?

outside here is freezing the pack never reached 8celsius.
i did a full charge
also did a cell voltage measurement unloaded and loaded.

Out of interest, are you recording via Can-View too? I've worked out how to power both CanView and MFD while the car is switched off - I'll document it when I've finished with my trials. The idea is that Can-View, MFD and BMS+ are all turned on when I charge and data-log to a PC I've got to put in the car.

nikki did you already connect the bms+?

HAHAA! No. This is a week when I've had a plethora of students doing exams - not to mention the end-of-term concerts. No work on the Prius this week other than putting another 400 mlles on the clock. Tomorrow we're off to celebrate Thanksgiving (late) with some more American-British friends.

Next week - I hope to get the board finished and then the BMS+ can get installed. I need to figure out how to get the power to the various components while charging. A 12v mains supply is my choice at the moment I think...

Nikki.

[dmckinstry]

Originally Posted by aminorjourney

Dave,

Please tell me you were using cooling on those additional packs?

I suspect the guilty party here is not enough cooling on those packs. I would suggest constant forced ventilation while charging and as Norm has suggested, for several hours afterwards. What was the final voltage you are charging to?

You'll also notice that pack temperature when you have been heavily using the pack to be higher than if you had not been using it. 139 degrees F is 59 degrees C! That's hot! Do you know what the temperature of the pack was when you returned from your trip? The highest I've seen my OEM pack get while driving (a long downhill with lots of high power regen) is 55 degrees C or 131 Degrees F. Above 45 degrees C (113 F) EV mode won't engage.



Nikki.

I have been monitoring the temperature on the external packs, and they haven't been getting as warm as the internal packs. The only cooling is convective, but there is plenty of air space below them (the spare tire well has no tire in it). By touch the external packs in the a.m. when the interior pack read hot were cool. I'm still not sure the internal pack was at 139F when the sensor read that, which is why I want to attach a temperature sensor to the internal pack that I can read with the car off, while the charging is being done. I find it hard to believe the 139F for at least an hour (and at least 6 hours after completion of the charge with battery voltage of 232-233 V) wouldn't have completely destroyed the pack. Its internal impedance still only reads 0.25 ohms, which for this pack has been normal.

The car appears to be operating normally with the other packs disconnected. However, there hasn't been extensive operation or testing. That will start sometime after Dec. 6th.

Dave M.

[Flying White Dutchman]

what was your outside temp?

[dmckinstry]

Originally Posted by aminorjourney

I concur. I think your battery pack was probably fairly hot when you returned from your little trip and recharging it again pushed it over the top. What current are you charging at?



Out of interest, are you recording via Can-View too? I've worked out how to power both CanView and MFD while the car is switched off - I'll document it when I've finished with my trials. The idea is that Can-View, MFD and BMS+ are all turned on when I charge and data-log to a PC I've got to put in the car.



Leon - HAHAA! No. This is a week when I've had a plethora of students doing exams - not to mention the end-of-term concerts. No work on the Prius this week other than putting another 400 mlles on the clock. Tomorrow we're off to celebrate Thanksgiving (late) with some more American-British friends.

Next week - I hope to get the board finished and then the BMS+ can get installed. I need to figure out how to get the power to the various components while charging. A 12v mains supply is my choice at the moment I think...

Nikki.

When I've turned the car on for CAN-View readings near the end of the charge, the current (total not just through the internal pack) was about 0.6 A, and temperatures less than 100F. When returning from the 13 mile trip, CAN-View indicated the temp. less than 95F, and the external packs even less. I might mention that when the temperature was indicated to be 139F, the case on the pack was warm but not hot to the touch. I don't know the temperature difference between case and battery, but the case couldn't have been much more than 100F, or I would have felt discomfort in touching it.

I'll be interested in what you do to get CAN-View readings with the car off.

In accessory mode even, the readings aren't necessarily correct.

Dave M.

[aminorjourney]

Great news everyone!

My charger has shipped tonight and should be with me tomorrow. I'm so excited!

Sadly my car isn't going to be back with me until the end of December at the very earliest so I'll be working without the Prius. At least I can charge the two packs up off the Prius to make sure that everything is okay with them as they've sat for some time.

Dave, I'd be more than happy to share my final design once completed. There's still a few problems that need to be figured out before I actually do the PCB but I'm very close to having it sorted.

Nikki.