Sabertec Blade - any good on a Prius?

[carguy_12]

Originally Posted by Rokeby

Welcome to PriusCHat.

It is usually more than somewhat suspicious to have a first time poster
offering to act as a champion for a new product.

Ok, that irksome detail out of the way, just how much and what kind of
data is the "everything you could want to know" that is on the flash drive?


Why not post the whatever-it-is here or on another forum and let it
stand/fall on its own merits, such as they are or claimed to be?

Well its 700 mb of information. I'm not exactly a website builder and most if not all of the information is available on their website anyways. I just wanted to answer specific questions. I saw plenty of them here already, but I wanted to start fresh. But, I can answer any of the previous questions mentioned as well.

I sat at these guys booth for about 2 hours (LOL). I feel like an expert and they offered me a less then full price sample so I could see it for myself. But, after seeing all the liscensed testing that has occurred, I feel like I can champion the product. Not to mention, all the sales guys have them on their cars and a lot of celebrities are running these things now.

On the whole first time poster thing. I agree. I specifically joined this site to counter the arguments listed above. You were the top result on sabertech blade searches from what I could tell. Its kind of like slick 50. Everyone called it a snake oil for years until they figured out it actually works. The only problem with that product was the teflon could gum up your oil filter (and thats really bad).

But, I am not afraid of any question.

[butchbs1985]

As others have said, welcome to PC!

First, observations:

Originally Posted by carguy_12

Well its 700 mb of information.

If you need a place to put the files, PM me for FTP information. (I'm not sure if PC has FTP space available for such data). I would be happy to host the files.

Originally Posted by carguy_12

I sat at these guys booth for about 2 hours (LOL). I feel like an expert and they offered me a less then full price sample so I could see it for myself.

Can you really consider yourself an expert after two hours? I don't know that I have ever been willing to 'champion' a product after only two hours. Much less a product that I have not tried. (Based on your previous post stating that you had not received yours yet).

Originally Posted by carguy_12

Not to mention, all the sales guys have them on their cars and a lot of celebrities are running these things now.

- Of course the sales guys use them. When a potential client sees them using the product, they are reassured that the product is legit. If customers are convinced, there will be more sales. (Isn't that the job of a sales guy)?
- I consider celebrities to be authorities on restaurants and social events. Not so much automotive efficiency / mechanics / or much else. (with select exceptions). Do you see people asking Jessica Simpson for example how to change their oil?

Originally Posted by carguy_12

Its kind of like slick 50. Everyone called it a snake oil for years until they figured out it actually works. The only problem with that product was the teflon could gum up your oil filter (and thats really bad).

Agreed. This product does have similarities to Slick 50.
-Similarity: Slick 50 gummed up oil filters while this will eventually plug your exhaust. Even a clean filter is a significant airflow restriction.

- After a quick Google search, I'm fairly confident that you will find equal amounts of people who believe that Slick 50 is a scam and those who believe that it works. See this as an example: http://priuschat.com/forums/care-mai...-in-prius.html

Originally Posted by carguy_12

I specifically joined this site to counter the arguments listed above.

-Are you Sure you aren't on the payroll? Seems like a lot of work for a social community that you have no real ties to / interest in prior to this product.

Originally Posted by carguy_12

But, I am not afraid of any question.

Good for you! Here's mine:

From: Blade Your Ride: How It Works

"3. BLADE decreases emissions and increases fuel economy by increasing the Volumetric Efficiency (VE) of your engine."

I don't know anything about Volumetric Efficiency, but what I do know came from this web page. I also found that the web page could be contradicting itself when it states:

"A big difference between the “gas wave” and the “energy wave” is that the energy wave travels about 5-times faster than the gas wave—at a rate of approximately 1,500 feet per second.When the energy wave travels through the exhaust system, it encounters obstacles, such as bends in the manifold, or the catalytic converter. These obstacles cause the energy wave to “bounce” or “revert” backwards in the form of a “reversion wave”.Reversion waves transmit energy back towards the engine. At supersonic speeds, it doesn’t take long for a reversion wave to reach the engine’s exhaust valve, which is still in the process of releasing the much slower-traveling wave of exhaust gas. When a wave of reverted energy encounters the gas wave, the more energy intensive reversion wave forces pressure upon it—pushing, or “backsliding” some of its gas back into the combustion chamber. And this is how reversion waves create backsliding! And backsliding is a major cause of pumping loss."

So since when this "energy wave" encounters obstacles, the resulting bounce / reversion wave creates backsliding. Wouldn't the additional filter on the end of the exhaust provide yet another obstacle thus increasing the "backsliding"?

Web page also states: "BLADE increases volumetric efficiency by reducing pumping loss and backsliding."

OK... Where's the data? I am now so impressed by their description of Volumetric Efficiency that I have forgotten that you neglected to reveal how your device increases the volumetric efficiency.

In your defense, they do have data elsewhere on the website. The website indicates that the data is in PDF format but it was actually Jpeg. (Perhaps they need a new web developer as well). I took the liberty of converting the files which are attached to this post.

Note that the test results carry the message "The emissions numbers on this vehicle are small to begin with therefore any percentage changes have to be viewed with this in mind".

Where's the remainder of the 700 MB of data? The website does not contain much convincing material at all. Please let us know where we can view the data.

Again, I volunteer my FTP site if necessary. I commit to presenting ALL information provided without alterations or bias.

[dogfriend]

Originally Posted by carguy_12

Its kind of like slick 50. Everyone called it a snake oil for years until they figured out it actually works. The only problem with that product was the teflon could gum up your oil filter (and thats really bad).

But, I am not afraid of any question.

That's all I need to know. Thanks.

[carguy_12]

Originally Posted by butchbs1985

As others have said, welcome to PC!

First, observations:

If you need a place to put the files, PM me for FTP information. (I'm not sure if PC has FTP space available for such data). I would be happy to host the files.


Can you really consider yourself an expert after two hours? I don't know that I have ever been willing to 'champion' a product after only two hours. Much less a product that I have not tried. (Based on your previous post stating that you had not received yours yet).


- Of course the sales guys use them. When a potential client sees them using the product, they are reassured that the product is legit. If customers are convinced, there will be more sales. (Isn't that the job of a sales guy)?
- I consider celebrities to be authorities on restaurants and social events. Not so much automotive efficiency / mechanics / or much else. (with select exceptions). Do you see people asking Jessica Simpson for example how to change their oil?


Agreed. This product does have similarities to Slick 50.
-Similarity: Slick 50 gummed up oil filters while this will eventually plug your exhaust. Even a clean filter is a significant airflow restriction.

- After a quick Google search, I'm fairly confident that you will find equal amounts of people who believe that Slick 50 is a scam and those who believe that it works. See this as an example:

-Are you Sure you aren't on the payroll? Seems like a lot of work for a social community that you have no real ties to / interest in prior to this product.


Good for you! Here's mine:

From:

"3. BLADE decreases emissions and increases fuel economy by increasing the Volumetric Efficiency (VE) of your engine."

I don't know anything about Volumetric Efficiency, but what I do know came from this web page. I also found that the web page could be contradicting itself when it states:

"A big difference between the “gas wave” and the “energy wave” is that the energy wave travels about 5-times faster than the gas wave—at a rate of approximately 1,500 feet per second.When the energy wave travels through the exhaust system, it encounters obstacles, such as bends in the manifold, or the catalytic converter. These obstacles cause the energy wave to “bounce” or “revert” backwards in the form of a “reversion wave”.Reversion waves transmit energy back towards the engine. At supersonic speeds, it doesn’t take long for a reversion wave to reach the engine’s exhaust valve, which is still in the process of releasing the much slower-traveling wave of exhaust gas. When a wave of reverted energy encounters the gas wave, the more energy intensive reversion wave forces pressure upon it—pushing, or “backsliding” some of its gas back into the combustion chamber. And this is how reversion waves create backsliding! And backsliding is a major cause of pumping loss."

So since when this "energy wave" encounters obstacles, the resulting bounce / reversion wave creates backsliding. Wouldn't the additional filter on the end of the exhaust provide yet another obstacle thus increasing the "backsliding"?

Web page also states: "BLADE increases volumetric efficiency by reducing pumping loss and backsliding."

OK... Where's the data? I am now so impressed by their description of Volumetric Efficiency that I have forgotten that you neglected to reveal how your device increases the volumetric efficiency.

In your defense, they do have data elsewhere on the website. The website indicates that the data is in PDF format but it was actually Jpeg. (Perhaps they need a new web developer as well). I took the liberty of converting the files which are attached to this post.

Note that the test results carry the message "The emissions numbers on this vehicle are small to begin with therefore any percentage changes have to be viewed with this in mind".

Where's the remainder of the 700 MB of data? The website does not contain much convincing material at all. Please let us know where we can view the data.

Again, I volunteer my FTP site if necessary. I commit to presenting ALL information provided without alterations or bias.

Good morning. I don't mind uploading this information to your ftp. Get with me about that. I don't consider myself an expert on the blade at all. I consider myself an above average mechanic when it comes to exhaust streams and how they actually function.

Lets get something straight. I am not on the payroll of sabertec and I am not doing this for profit. As someone in the automotive business, I can tell you that I highly doubt anyone from any company championing a new product would go on forums and post. It is a garanteed mess especially if your product does not work.

I have gone to SEMA and APEX show for the last 6 years looking at all the new fuel economy savers. This product stood out to me because unlike many of the other products that are exhaust restrictors, this one worked in concept as well as testing.

So to get to answering your questions.

So since when this "energy wave" encounters obstacles, the resulting bounce / reversion wave creates backsliding. Wouldn't the additional filter on the end of the exhaust provide yet another obstacle thus increasing the "backsliding"?

OK... Where's the data? I am now so impressed by their description of Volumetric Efficiency that I have forgotten that you neglected to reveal how your device increases the volumetric efficiency.

Are you familiar with headers for performance vehicles and what they accomplish? Headers increase performance of some cars by allowing the reversion wave to travel farther along the exhaust system before encountering an obstacle. They also help remove more exhaust gases via increased capacity.

So, there are already products out there that increase the reversion waves travel distance which in turn creates better volumetric efficiency. Hopefully we can agree on that. If the reversion wave takes twice the distance that it was taking before, you are gaining a volumetric benefit as it is taking more time for that reversion wave to reach the exhaust valve and "backslide" gases into your combustion chamber.

Every object along the exhaust system with any impeding devices will cause a reversion wave. This mostly consists of catalytic converters and mufflers.

What the blade does is create an effect called exhaust scavenging. The exhaust stream moves in pulses. These pulses have an effect of going forward, then moving backwards. This is due to vacumn created in the combustion process and the reversion wave creating backsliding. The blade does create pressure in the exhaust system. That is true. But, it does not create backpressure. The blades pressure effect causes the exhaust stream to compact itself along with gaining positive acceleration through the exhaust stream.

I have a video that explains this further. In short temrs, it shortens the backstroke of the exhaust stream while increasing the forward stroke. This process called "exhaust scavenging" improves the volumetric efficiency of an engine. If you can move more exhaust out quicker while slowing the backsliding effect of an engine, you can improve volumetric efficiency. This is what the blade does.

I figure I will knock out the backpressure argument while im sitting here. The blade creates a neutral pressure in the exhaust system without creating backpressure. To prove this, you only have to look at the california air resources board. Any product that is shown to create a backpressure in the exhaust stream MUST have a carb exemption. The product passed their test (i have .pdf of where it was tested) and does not require a carb exemption. It produced something like .2 psi. To fail the carb test a product must create 1psi or more of backpressure. Anything less then 1psi is considered to be negligible.

It is for sale in california, and it did pass the carb regulations.


On another note, if anyone would like to see the blade in action and you have a friend at a inspection station, here is what you do.
CO2 output is directly related to engine output. If you put out more CO2, you are burning more energy. There is no getting around that fact. So, if you have a friend with some time and an inspection station, have him use the wand on your exhaust stream and measure your CO2 output. Then, install a blade and measure it again. Your CO2 output will go down. Therefore, you are expending less energy for the same amount of output as before. Its an easily measurable test that can be performed by anyone.

On yet another note, why don't manufacturer's put this device on their cars if it is so awesome? Well for starters, it adds yet another filter element to your car which consumers will have to change. It also has to be changed relatively frequently depending on driving environment. Also, having numerous aquaintences on that side of the business, I have found that no matter how good any product is, you are looking at a 2 to 3 year planning and testing process before any product will hit the assembly line. So if someone comes out tommorow with something that adds 50% to your gas mileage, it still won't come out off the production line for 2 to 3 years.

Send me a pm and ill give you my instant messenger handle and we can get this information uploaded to your ftp.

Hopefully, I answered in a fair manner your questions.

[dogfriend]

Originally Posted by carguy_12

It is for sale in california, and it did pass the carb regulations.

Hi. Did you know that when you post, everyone who subscribes to the thread gets an email that contains a text copy of your initial post?

I noted that you edited the statement above. It originally read:

We are for sale in california, and we did pass the carb regulations.

No financial interest?

[carguy_12]

Thats why I edited it. Because I got so into the article I noticed I wrote that a few times. I used our as well towards the end. I was watching the videos as I was writing and made a mistake.

[dogfriend]

Oops.

[carguy_12]

Originally Posted by dogfriend

Oops.

Well, i would like to point out, that I added in numerous paragraphs of text during my editing process as well. :P. Anyways, other questions?

Ive also managed to cut down the flash drive to about 100mb as i got rid of all the videos other then the how it works.

[lenjack]

What's your cut on each one sold?

[carguy_12]

I realize my previous edited* comments lend to the contrary of what I have said. But, I can assure you I am not an employee of sabertec nor have I ever sold a "blade" or have been paid. But, I would have to argue this to the end of time.

I would rather stick to the arguments behind the product itself. Honestly, I just find this entertaining because I have seen so many "tornados, magnets, turbonators," and its just a energizing proposition to have seen a product that has the EPA certified testing to back it up.

Like i said in my first post, I literally just searched the product on google and this is the top website with actual discussion on the matter. I wanted to lend my help having first hand experienced the "sales pitch" of the people at sabertech.

So, moving forward. Any questions?