PHEV Conversion

[ibcs]

First let me say, I have been talking to Cheap about converting my 2006 Prius to PHEV. I already have the computer touch screen in the vehicle along with many other enhancements. This project may be out of the need to fiddle, but I think I'm ready.

Cheap says I will need the following parts and calcars.org give an approximate cost, but the information I lack is where to obtain the parts along with the specific batteries the system can support. One of my last questions is has anyone considered using high amperage marine battieries instead of the pab that are specified. Any inputs from someone that has done a conversion would be greatly appreciated.

From Cheap:
You need
A Can-view
You may need a screen for the Can-view
one wire from the can-view to the EV mode pin
One ribbon cable from the canview to the control board.
One control board
One battery box
two contactors
two finger safe fuses
one ground fault plug
one 5 amp 14 volt power supply from radio shack
batteries
fans
Charger (Recommend a Zivan or Brusa) $1,100 to $2,500 ouch
a 120 volt relay
low power wires
High power cables.

You know you only get about 12 to 15 miles of pure EV only travel at less then 34 mph. Or you could get about 30 miles of EV assist. If you go lead acid you have to recharge everyday and you should (I don't) get a battery Management System to help take care of them.

In the end you will save money everyday. After two years you will have to replace the lead acid batteries for new ones. I don't have the current price of them right now.

I recommend either BB battery EVP20-12s or there is another one I have to get the name of that is 22 amp hours so you can go a little further.

This is all experimental and you will void your warranty.

Let's start the discussion!
---Kent

[markderail]

What I'd like to see is a simple Parallel connection to the existing HV battery to another HV pack of the same voltage, stored above the spare tire.
Removing the spare tire.

If a recycled HV Prius battery is 1/4 the cost of a new, and could be stored (with perhaps some modification to it's size) and hooked in Parallel, effectively doubling the amperage.

With a Shunt, the extra pack could be plugged-in, unplug and shunt-on to double amperage. No voiding of the warranty.
Because it's another NiMh pack instead of LiOn, no need to reprogram the car's computer. The drain will simply take longer to occur.

In any case, even if GM's Volt is a failure, it will usher a new battery pack designed for EV cars, and that battery company will have an instant market with over a million Prius on the road.

[ibcs]

My thoughts were along the same line, especially when I noticed on EBay you could buy a salvage battery for $700 to $1000. This would give double the range, but I'm not sure that is enough benefit.

I agree the spare tire is history. AAA and fix a flat would replace it.

---Kent


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mark Derail @ Oct 5 2007, 04:01 PM) [snapback]521896[/snapback]</div>

What I'd like to see is a simple Parallel connection to the existing HV battery to another HV pack of the same voltage, stored above the spare tire.
Removing the spare tire.

If a recycled HV Prius battery is 1/4 the cost of a new, and could be stored (with perhaps some modification to it's size) and hooked in Parallel, effectively doubling the amperage.

With a Shunt, the extra pack could be plugged-in, unplug and shunt-on to double amperage. No voiding of the warranty.
Because it's another NiMh pack instead of LiOn, no need to reprogram the car's computer. The drain will simply take longer to occur.

In any case, even if GM's Volt is a failure, it will usher a new battery pack designed for EV cars, and that battery company will have an instant market with over a million Prius on the road. [/b]

[SureValla]

im curious what was the cost of all those things?

[ibcs]

This is the page I have been looking at at calcars.org

Please answer the new questions for our information-gathering at the Conversion Interest page.

Estimated Fabrication Costs

Assembled and tested circuit board $250-500
Battery tray (4 needed) $150-250
Battery box top $150-200
Battery box foundation $150-200
Electronics tray, assembled and wired $500-1K
Set of pre-built battery cables $150-200
Pre-built low-power wiring harness $150-300
Total (including 4 trays) $1950-2500 These are estimates for the labor only; approximate components costs are below.

Est. Component Costs
Min Max Battery set (20 + 2 spares) 900-1100
Battery wire & lugs 100 - 150
Heating pads & insulation 100
CAN-View 600
Display (opt for 2004-5 Prii) 0 200
Charger (Delta-q or Brusa) 800 - 2500 Cord reel & base
brackets 100
Contactors (3) 240 - 330
Fuses & holders 60 A (2) 100 - 150
Fans (3) 60 120 All metal & plastic 200 - 300
Circuit board 100
Circuit board components 200 - 300
Connectors 200 - 300
Misc. electronics 150 - 200

Total 3850 - 6550

http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/PriusPl...s_availability

The problem seems to be finding where to get the parts and information to complete the job. The feasability is based upon a personal choice.

---Kent


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SureValla @ Oct 5 2007, 04:24 PM) [snapback]521912[/snapback]</div>

im curious what was the cost of all those things? [/b]

[1fixitman]

http://priuschat.com/My-official-Prius-Plu...ead-t26951.html

[miscrms]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mark Derail @ Oct 5 2007, 03:01 PM) [snapback]521896[/snapback]</div>

What I'd like to see is a simple Parallel connection to the existing HV battery to another HV pack of the same voltage, stored above the spare tire.
Removing the spare tire.

If a recycled HV Prius battery is 1/4 the cost of a new, and could be stored (with perhaps some modification to it's size) and hooked in Parallel, effectively doubling the amperage.
[/b]

This is pretty much everyone's first idea when thinking about PHEV (including mine)

Unfortunately its more complicated than that. What you are talking about can be done (and has been done) but it has minimal effect. Basically the toyota programmed battery controller is too smart. The key to successful conversion is how to trick the toyota software to recognize and use the additional battery capacity (unless you completely replace the battery and create your own controller).

The calcars conversion method is basically the simplest way to accomplish this. Use a big relay (contactor) to connect and disconnect a big battery pack to the main oem battery. Use a controller (CAN-View) to monitor the oem battery and driving conditions and decide when to connect and disconnect the extra pack. Make the extra pack voltage high enough that when connected the oem pack senses the high voltage and recalibrates (SOC drift). Play a few tricks with fans and warmers to try and keep the battery in the right temp range to use EV or assist as much as possible. Charge up the big battery overnight so its full every morning.

There are more elegant ways to do it, that will maximize range and efficiency but they are much more complicated and expensive.

rob

[miscrms]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ibcs @ Oct 5 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]521889[/snapback]</div>

First let me say, I have been talking to Cheap about converting my 2006 Prius to PHEV. I already have the computer touch screen in the vehicle along with many other enhancements. This project may be out of the need to fiddle, but I think I'm ready.

Cheap says I will need the following parts and calcars.org give an approximate cost, but the information I lack is where to obtain the parts along with the specific batteries the system can support. One of my last questions is has anyone considered using high amperage marine battieries instead of the pab that are specified. Any inputs from someone that has done a conversion would be greatly appreciated.
[/b]

Is it practical? Probably not. Using NimH or Li-ion the cost today for a private individual is well beyond what you will recoup in gas savings. Lead acid has much lower upfront cost, but due to expected 1-2 year battery life, lifetime ownership cost may actually be worse than NimH or Li-ion. On top of that this is not a mature process. Unless you can pony up $20-30k for a commercial conversion, there will be a lot of fiddling, tweaking, and monitoring involved for the foreseeable future. Down the road when these professional conversions are $5-10k then we may be talking.

All that said, I can't wait to do mine! The motivation to do this has to be other than financial. For me its part engineering challenge, part desire to reduce carbon footprint, part desire to reduce foreign oil consumption, and part saying a big screw you to the "man" (oil companies, auto companies, government etc).

High amp marine batteries would be great, except for the weight. The smallest I have found are Optima D51s at around 26 lbs. This is still really heavy, given that you need 20 of them. They are also considerably less efficient than their larger brothers the D31s and D34s. Even a D51 pack with one passenger would place you at GVW limit for the vehicle, maxing out the suspension, reducing efficiency due to extra weight, and potentially creating a crash hazard. Most people seem to be targetting a battery pack around 200-300 lbs as a good compromise between range, safety, handling etc. This puts you in the 10-15 lb battery class, the best of which are probably high output, high cycle UPS batteries.

This is one advantage to the Manzanita Micro PiPrius approach, of using a dc:dc converter between the supplemental pack and the main pack. Then you can use a smaller number of larger more efficient batteries. Of course this approach ads significantly to the project cost.

Definately check out the thread rock posted, you'll find a lot af great details Cheap has posted on his conversion process. You may also want to spend some time researching on http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Prius_PHEV home of the open source calcars conversion.

Good luck!

Rob

[ibcs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rob Smith @ Oct 5 2007, 06:14 PM) [snapback]521970[/snapback]</div>

Is it practical? Probably not. Using NimH or Li-ion the cost today for a private individual is well beyond what you will recoup in gas savings. Lead acid has much lower upfront cost, but due to expected 1-2 year battery life, lifetime ownership cost may actually be worse than NimH or Li-ion. On top of that this is not a mature process. Unless you can pony up $20-30k for a commercial conversion, there will be a lot of fiddling, tweaking, and monitoring involved for the foreseeable future. Down the road when these professional conversions are $5-10k then we may be talking.

All that said, I can't wait to do mine! The motivation to do this has to be other than financial. For me its part engineering challenge, part desire to reduce carbon footprint, part desire to reduce foreign oil consumption, and part saying a big screw you to the "man" (oil companies, auto companies, government etc).

High amp marine batteries would be great, except for the weight. The smallest I have found are Optima D51s at around 26 lbs. This is still really heavy, given that you need 20 of them. They are also considerably less efficient than their larger brothers the D31s and D34s. Even a D51 pack with one passenger would place you at GVW limit for the vehicle, maxing out the suspension, reducing efficiency due to extra weight, and potentially creating a crash hazard. Most people seem to be targetting a battery pack around 200-300 lbs as a good compromise between range, safety, handling etc. This puts you in the 10-15 lb battery class, the best of which are probably high output, high cycle UPS batteries.

This is one advantage to the Manzanita Micro PiPrius approach, of using a dc:dc converter between the supplemental pack and the main pack. Then you can use a smaller number of larger more efficient batteries. Of course this approach ads significantly to the project cost.

Definately check out the thread rock posted, you'll find a lot af great details Cheap has posted on his conversion process. You may also want to spend some time researching on http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Prius_PHEV home of the open source calcars conversion.

Good luck!

Rob
[/b]

To be honest, my motivation is not to save money. It would be nice, but my theory is that I can enhance a nice vehicle to get 90+ miles to the gallon. I guess my motivation is the desire to not use gas. Sounds stupid, but I guess I'm turning GREEN and want to be the first in my area. I read the thread, but the porblem I had with the thread is it does not tell where to buy the parts and/or if they can be bought as a kit. That was my purpose of starting the thread. Honestly, 4K for a 2K return in gas savings would not offend me.

I will look into the other thread you mentioned.

---Kent

[markderail]

I like the idea of a relay to go from one HV to another.

When at rest it's the OEM battery, so the extra HV is always disconnected when the car is at rest. An extra relay triggered by 120VAC plug-in as a security measure on the same line.

I also like the DCC conversion. Less batteries would mean that the newer higher voltage batteries could totally replace the OEM battery pack.
In my case going from EV-2 to EV-10 would make a huge difference in gas usage.