Best diagnostic tool for reading trouble codes?

svallandigham · 10-18-2007, 09:53 AM

I recently got fed up with my local dealer her in upstate NY after years of letting them maintain our cars. We own a 2001 and a 2004 Prius. The 2001 is going strong at over 112,000. The dealer has performed all of the periodic maintenance on the car. The car seems to run fine, but several times has thrown the check engine light. The last time this occurred the dealer told me it threw a P3191 troble code and that the ECU and gas tank needed to be replaced at the cost of $3500. I was shocked and awed. This was the first time we have had a suggestion of any major repair with either car. I read the TSB that the technician was referencing, and it seemed to be a possibility. I decided to do some checking, and found this site. After reading several threads, I determined that the throttle body was sticking, leading to a delayed start. A $5 can of cleaner fixed the problem.

The 2001 has thrown check engine before. I checked all my service records, and found that it threw a P3191 several years ago when we were on a trip to NH. Took it in to a dealer there, and they determined that our dealer back home had overfilled the crankcase with the just completed oil change, and fouled the sensor. This lead to delayed start and the P3191.

I have been reluctant to go under the hood because of the warranty, and the synergy drive technology is an undiscovered country for me. I just changed the transaxle lube after reading helpful threads here. Although the service record says they changed it as required, they never charged for the type IV on any of my invoices. The magnet was covered in scuzz and the fluid had a parafin smell. I don't think they did the required service. The job was a snap with the online guidance here, and a quart hand pump I got from Westmarine (used to change lube on lower units of outboards). I am well beyond warranty on the 2001, so we will see how long the transaxle runs.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a scantool that will work equally well on the 2001 NHW11 and the 2004 NHW20? How about a source for repair and maintenance manuals for both cars? At this point, I am highly motivated to do all my own maintenance going forward.

**efusco** · 10-18-2007, 02:03 PM

If you're itching to spend some money consider getting a ScanGauge II. You can purchase through this site, I think the Madison Hybrid Group is currently selling at a discount via a group buy.

It'll set you back about $150 or so, but not only can you read and clear codes you'll open the door to a whole lot of other info you can continuously monitor in your car and improve your FE and understand the car a lot better.

Ichabod · 10-19-2007, 03:15 PM

And for not too much $$ you can get an account with TIS: https://techinfo.toyota.com/

All the service manuals, etc. Use wget or your favorite web-jacker to download everything!

TheForce · 10-19-2007, 03:20 PM

Does wget work with the new layout?

jk450 · 10-19-2007, 08:57 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SteveV @ Oct 18 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]527279[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

...Does anyone have a recommendation for a scantool that will work equally well on the 2001 NHW11 and the 2004 NHW20? How about a source for repair and maintenance manuals for both cars? At this point, I am highly motivated to do all my own maintenance going forward.
[/b]

You don't need a scan tool to perform maintenance. However, if you want to do your own repair, a code reader such as ScanGauge may help you - or may lead you in the wrong direction. As the P3190/P3191 issue was well documented, the code alone was all that you needed. You won't always be so lucky. I see misdiagnosis all the time by technicians, including dealership technicians, who looked at the code and nothing else.

Toyota's TIS website is a good value; one of the cheapest and most comprehensive in the industry.

For many repairs, however, you'll need a full data list (including the hybrid system computers) as well as the ability to read subcodes and perform active tests. Many professional scanners in the $3K - $10K range can't do that. The Bosch (was Vetronix) Mastertech can do so up to 2007 with the right software, and it's a few thousand on the secondhand market. Toyota's Techstream will be released to the general public soon, but it's about $8K.

I realize that many of these solutions are most likely out of your price range, but you deserve an accurate reply.

svallandigham · 10-19-2007, 09:19 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Oct 19 2007, 08:57 PM) [snapback]527992[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

You don't need a scan tool to perform maintenance. However, if you want to do your own repair, a code reader such as ScanGauge may help you - or may lead you in the wrong direction. As the P3190/P3191 issue was well documented, the code alone was all that you needed. You won't always be so lucky. I see misdiagnosis all the time by technicians, including dealership technicians, who looked at the code and nothing else.

Toyota's TIS website is a good value; one of the cheapest and most comprehensive in the industry.

For many repairs, however, you'll need a full data list (including the hybrid system computers) as well as the ability to read subcodes and perform active tests. Many professional scanners in the $3K - $10K range can't do that. The Bosch (was Vetronix) Mastertech can do so up to 2007 with the right software, and it's a few thousand on the secondhand market. Toyota's Techstream will be released to the general public soon, but it's about $8K.

I realize that many of these solutions are most likely out of your price range, but you deserve an accurate reply.
[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 18 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]527378[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

If you're itching to spend some money consider getting a ScanGauge II. You can purchase through this site, I think the Madison Hybrid Group is currently selling at a discount via a group buy.

It'll set you back about $150 or so, but not only can you read and clear codes you'll open the door to a whole lot of other info you can continuously monitor in your car and improve your FE and understand the car a lot better.
[/b]

How does the Scangauge II compare to other options? Since it would read both the 2001 and the 2004, seems like a good way to go. But since it is designed to service all OBDII vehichles, does it have a lot of software support for the Prius? I saw one reader designed for the 2001-2003 models at www.ecrostech.com that permits reading the temp of the SG1, SG2, and the inverter coolant temp. Does the expanded software patch on the Scanguage II for the Prius allow it to report back on parameters from any sensor under the hood with the right setup?

**efusco** · 10-19-2007, 09:59 PM

SGII has limited hybrid info...for PriusII only SOC% and voltage as far as I know. But it will read all your codes and the non-hybrid info is still useful.

lplate · 11-26-2007, 04:42 PM

Is there a site to download all the codes?

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10-18-2007, 09:53 AM	#1
svallandigham Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	I recently got fed up with my local dealer her in upstate NY after years of letting them maintain our cars. We own a 2001 and a 2004 Prius. The 2001 is going strong at over 112,000. The dealer has performed all of the periodic maintenance on the car. The car seems to run fine, but several times has thrown the check engine light. The last time this occurred the dealer told me it threw a P3191 troble code and that the ECU and gas tank needed to be replaced at the cost of $3500. I was shocked and awed. This was the first time we have had a suggestion of any major repair with either car. I read the TSB that the technician was referencing, and it seemed to be a possibility. I decided to do some checking, and found this site. After reading several threads, I determined that the throttle body was sticking, leading to a delayed start. A $5 can of cleaner fixed the problem. The 2001 has thrown check engine before. I checked all my service records, and found that it threw a P3191 several years ago when we were on a trip to NH. Took it in to a dealer there, and they determined that our dealer back home had overfilled the crankcase with the just completed oil change, and fouled the sensor. This lead to delayed start and the P3191. I have been reluctant to go under the hood because of the warranty, and the synergy drive technology is an undiscovered country for me. I just changed the transaxle lube after reading helpful threads here. Although the service record says they changed it as required, they never charged for the type IV on any of my invoices. The magnet was covered in scuzz and the fluid had a parafin smell. I don't think they did the required service. The job was a snap with the online guidance here, and a quart hand pump I got from Westmarine (used to change lube on lower units of outboards). I am well beyond warranty on the 2001, so we will see how long the transaxle runs. Does anyone have a recommendation for a scantool that will work equally well on the 2001 NHW11 and the 2004 NHW20? How about a source for repair and maintenance manuals for both cars? At this point, I am highly motivated to do all my own maintenance going forward.

10-18-2007, 02:03 PM	#2
efusco Troll Slayer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 17,250 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 50 Thanked 261 Times in 157 Posts Friends: 37	If you're itching to spend some money consider getting a ScanGauge II. You can purchase through this site, I think the Madison Hybrid Group is currently selling at a discount via a group buy. It'll set you back about $150 or so, but not only can you read and clear codes you'll open the door to a whole lot of other info you can continuously monitor in your car and improve your FE and understand the car a lot better.

10-19-2007, 03:15 PM	#3
Ichabod Artist In Residence Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newton, MA Posts: 1,793 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: #7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Friends: 7	And for not too much $$ you can get an account with TIS: https://techinfo.toyota.com/ All the service manuals, etc. Use wget or your favorite web-jacker to download everything!

10-19-2007, 03:20 PM	#4
TheForce I Plug-In My Prius Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wheelersburg, Ohio Posts: 2,746 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: #7 Thanks: 5 Thanked 170 Times in 124 Posts Friends: 22	Does wget work with the new layout?

10-19-2007, 09:59 PM	#7
efusco Troll Slayer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 17,250 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 50 Thanked 261 Times in 157 Posts Friends: 37	SGII has limited hybrid info...for PriusII only SOC% and voltage as far as I know. But it will read all your codes and the non-hybrid info is still useful.

11-26-2007, 04:42 PM	#8
lplate Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 26 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Is there a site to download all the codes?