Computer code problems after Ignition Interlock Device installation

[Android Marvin]

Let's get the "owner is a bad person" stuff out of the way up front...Due to multiple dui offenses, I had to have an ignition interlock device (IID) installed on my 2006 pkg. 3 in order to be allowed by California to drive. Please take it as read I regret my actions and I am doing all I can and all that I am required to do make amends for my past wrongdoing.

Unfortunately, none of the three Los Angeles device installers is a Prius tech. Of course, when I asked, all three companies said there would be no problem for their contractors to install their device, so I went ahead and picked one and got it done. (Lots of red flags should have gone up for me--I guess they did, but I was so anxious to be driving again, I ignored them.) The company I went with is called Guardian Interlock. Their local installer seems nice enough. He ran into problems with the installation, but said he got copies of schematics from a Toyota tech friend, so he'd be able to ensure he wasn't linking any wires anywhere they shouldn't be. I paid LOTS extra for the extra time the installation took him over standard installs.

Anyway, within less than 100 miles of installation, check engine light (CEL) came on. Again, note that the IID installer is not a Prius tech, but he checked the code for me, which he said was P0172 - System too Rich (Fuel Trim). He reset the code, but the light came back on within a couple of miles. I then took the car to a local repair shop with a real Prius tech, who ran full diagnostics, and came up with 17 or 18 codes in addition to P0172 (u0293 host communication with hybrid control system malfunction, u0073 voltage problem in airbag communication system, o0121 control module communication bus off, no communication w/ abs control system, right and left front air bag sensor errors b1615 & b1200, smart key control module communication malfunction and others). The tech said he could not reset the codes (he tried, but it didn't work).When I went to start the car to take it back to the installer, the big triangle with the red exclamation point was on. On advice from Prius tech, I had the car towed to the non-Prius tech Guardian installer, who is examining his installation for errors.

The installer is just a contractor for Guardian, and he's in a bad spot, too. He has put in a lot of time here. I spoke with a couple of reps from Guardian itself about another (!) issue, and one was very nice but non-committal. The other was rude and obstructive, and told me, basically, any problems are mine, he's not interested in helping me, and too bad about that little legal issue from California that says I'm pretty well stuck with them if I plan on driving for the next couple of years.

I'm upset and confused. There's no consumer agency that I can think of that can help me work through this and I don't know what I'll do if there is, in fact, damage to the computer systems. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that Toyota won't fix any damage caused by this escapade, since it was caused by an aftermarket installation. (The car is still under warranty--32k miles on the odo.)

I don't really know what my question is...I'm just trying to get SOME kind of feedback, so I have some ideas of what to do/say as this nightmare continues to unfold.

Please, I beg you, suspend your judgment on what I did that got me here, and give me constructive thoughts on this. I'll answer any other questions that'll help--I've just tried to give the pertinent info here.

Thank you.

[Android Marvin]

UPDATE: I just got a call from the installer. He said once the car was delivered to him by the tow truck, the CODES AND WARNING TRIANGLE WERE GONE. He says I can come get the car and drive it until the codes come back and bring it back to him, or I can leave it with him to drive for a while to see if the codes come back...The shop with the Prius tech recommends I take it to a Toyota dealership now for them to look at. I'm guessing the latter is what I should be doing. But still, I have no frame of reference for anything any of these shops are telling me so I'm still feeling all confused and battered. Do I just throw money at all of 'em until the problems go away...or do I start looking for a lawyer to throw money at...or do I get the IID uninstalled, sell the car, and buy something with a more conventional ignition system...which I wouldn't be able to test drive, since I can't drive anything without the IID already on it...or just give up and not drive until the legal restrictions expire, in March 2012? Which I really am not willing to do, so--sell the Prius and get something else or see this through...With California putting in more laws requiring IID installations (the latest started July 1--if you are caught driving on a license suspended due to dui, you have to have one installed for reinstatement, and there is talk that IIDs will be required for even first offenses starting next year), maybe I should become the poster child for the problems with the implementation of the IID installation requirements. I mean, there doesn't appear to be anywhere at the DMV that actual information about the specific devices and installers is held--they just have a list of the companies that they license. You have to call each company to find out if they have installers in your area, and each company's device works slightly differently...

[jayman]

You have no idea what the installer did to the wiring harness. It's like when our socialist/commie NDP Provincial government mandated ignition immobolizers on some vehicles, rather than actually deal with the criminals

There were many horror stories of ruined wiring harnesses, vehicles that refused to start once it got cold, etc

[Android Marvin]

Originally Posted by jayman

You have no idea what the installer did to the wiring harness. It's like when our socialist/commie NDP Provincial government mandated ignition immobolizers on some vehicles, rather than actually deal with the criminals

There were many horror stories of ruined wiring harnesses, vehicles that refused to start once it got cold, etc

Well, in this criminal's case, the state is dealing with one of the criminals, anyway. I guess I'm wondering if the one the state isn't dealing with is the device's manufacturer. I'm trying to comply with both the spirit and the letter of the law, and the company may well have screwed up my car and, in the process, voided my warranty, and there doesn't seem to be anyone who is accountable for this outcome. The Guardian area manager with whom I spoke was so devoid of any vestige of common decency, it's breathtaking (is that ok, because I have to save my breath for the IID?). I can only imagine this manager only deals with installers and no end users, since his level of contempt for the users is such that he can't possibly have any regular contact with us.

I am not trying to avoid my consequences or responsibilities. I can't change the past. I am trying to do what I must, and, in the process, hoping my car hasn't been damaged to the extent I can't afford to repair it...and that Guardian has not voided my warranty...

As I noted above, with California requiring more and more of these devices to be installed, I can be pretty sure mine will not be the first problem of this sort caused by an undertrained installer. All I can do at this point is to keep trying to get this addressed, document my experiences and try to find someone at the DMV or somewhere in California's government who is willing to listen, at least, if not actually do anything. Regardless of whether or not the problem has actually disappeared for good, as the installer now seems to think has happened.

[Sandy]

maybe get a beater for awhile?

[qbee42]

You're in a bad spot. It's a captive market. You want to drive, but you can only do it if you install mandated hardware, and it's a small enough market that I doubt there is any real competition between the three manufactures. Since the area manager is not cooperative, you will need to move this up the chain or into a broader arena. Either way you need more information, which means taking your car to a Toyota dealership. Find out what is wrong, put it in writing, and send it to the manufacturer and the court. You may end up in litigation.

Tom

[Android Marvin]

Originally Posted by qbee42

You're in a bad spot. It's a captive market. You want to drive, but you can only do it if you install mandated hardware, and it's a small enough market that I doubt there is any real competition between the three manufactures. Since the area manager is not cooperative, you will need to move this up the chain or into a broader arena. Either way you need more information, which means taking your car to a Toyota dealership. Find out what is wrong, put it in writing, and send it to the manufacturer and the court. You may end up in litigation.

Tom

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm figuring. I've got everything so far written, and I'm sending letters to the company's customer service department, to make sure everything is documented, and to give Guardian a chance to make things right at any time. I'm sure there's a DUI atty in LA who would LOVE to take on the DMV about something other than a license suspension. As I said, I can see me becoming the poster child for getting regulation of these companies. Oh well, it'll keep me off the streets for a while longer...I'm off to pick up the now code-less car to see how long it stays that way. I'm taking the address of the close-ish, not too dishonest dealer with me (the one that's closer has had terrible reports everywhere--this one only has the bad reports SOME places), so I can go straight there, when, as I expect will happen, the CEL goes on as soon as I've driven a couple of miles. I've looked up info for the CA Bureau of Automotive Repair, but I'm not sure that they are the right ones to go to, so I've got the general info for the CA Dept of Consumer Affairs...They also have links to lawyer referral services. The problem is, if the light stays out now for a while, I'll still end up having to take it to the dealer whenever it does come back. I was hoping to take a roadtrip up to Northern CA next week, but I'll be afraid to do that now, to get too far away from home, fearing the car will blow up in the middle of I5 in the middle of nowhere, California.

Is it possible that the generic tester used by the installer could dismiss codes that the tester used by the Prius tech could not?

(And your advice about the beater, Sandy, is well-taken, however, I still have to ensure the health of the Prius regardless of what, if anything, I end up driving.)

[Android Marvin]

UPDATE: I picked up the car from the installer yesterday and the CEL and big warning triangle were, indeed, gone. I drove about 1 mile, and CEL came back, so I went back to the installer, and he got the same P0172 code and saw no others. I drove immediately to the dealer. The Prius tech initially got the 18 different codes, plus a notice to stop work immediately and call the mother ship (TAS--Toyota Automotive Service(?)). After almost 6 hours (most of that time, with me in the waiting room, suffering through hours of Fix News, until, about 4 hours in, everybody else left the room and I switched to Animal Planet), the service guy told me the Prius tech had everything except the original P0172 (system too rich) dismissed, but could not track down what was wrong to be throwing that code. It might, in fact, actually be completely coincidental and a warranty issue, but his tech needed more time to track it down either way. He told me I could drive the car over the weekend without worrying I'd do more damage, and bring it back Monday for the tech to get into again (the service writer is off for the weekend Fri & Sat and his techs work his schedule). So, it MAY not be the aftermarket device after all that is causing any of this. Or it may be, but I still have to get the car repaired before I can even consider having the device removed selling the car, without the evil P0172 code. I drove the car the 5-ish miles from the dealer yesterday, and I'm still code-free--although I still owe the dealership for all of yesterday's time. At the moment, they're calling the time all diagnostic, but will roll it into a repair if they ever figure out what to repair.

So--any advice on a mystery P0172 code?

[jayman]

For the 2004 Prius a P0172 diagnostic is, in order of probability:

- injector leak
- mass air flow sensor
- engine coolant temp sensor
- ignition system
- fuel pressure (Eg: fuel filter plugged, etc)
- exhaust system leakage
- open or short in O2 sensor bank1 sensor 1
- O2 sensor heater
- EFMI relay
- ECM

I would first start by looking at what sort of butcher job the installer did on the wiring harness. How, for example, is this device supposed to be installed?

I used the example of Manitoba Public Insurance up here mandating immobilizers for some cars, which resulted in horrible problems, damage, etc, that MPIC walked away from

[Android Marvin]

Originally Posted by jayman

For the 2004 Prius a P0172 diagnostic is, in order of probability:

- injector leak
- mass air flow sensor
- engine coolant temp sensor
- ignition system
- fuel pressure (Eg: fuel filter plugged, etc)
- exhaust system leakage
- open or short in O2 sensor bank1 sensor 1
- O2 sensor heater
- EFMI relay
- ECM

I would first start by looking at what sort of butcher job the installer did on the wiring harness. How, for example, is this device supposed to be installed?

I used the example of Manitoba Public Insurance up here mandating immobilizers for some cars, which resulted in horrible problems, damage, etc, that MPIC walked away from

While I am afraid it is going to turn out to be an installer-caused problem, I am hoping it isn't. If it is the fault of the installer, I don't expect the California Department of Motor Vehicles to be any more upstanding about responsibility than MPIC seems to be. But I can hope.

And as to how it is "supposed to be installed," well, that IS a tough one, it seems...with each car being a little different, and no instruction book for all the different possibilities. The installer said he contacted a Prius tech and got a schematic to help him track all the different colored wires. He seemed to proceed with diligence, but how can I tell? And, whatever the case--it's an aftermarket device, right?

Ah well...I have a few days to enjoy driving the Prius before I have to make the decision to sell it. And then try to find a car I can bear to drive that isn't a Prius...