Tanabe R&D for the 2010 Prius

[deltron3030]

*Here's the first post of the Tanabe R&D 2010. I'm sure it'll be updated regularly.

Tanabe USA R&D Blog | Research & Development Session Updates Day-to-Day

* The exhaust they gave me was NOT a Medalion Touring, rather, its a Concept G exhaust system.

* Yeah it was just the springs they tried out (no shocks/struts) and as far as I know, there were no fitment problems in the suspension area (the only issue was for the strut tower brace), so coilovers probably wouldn't be an issue.

* It might be worth noting that the R&D session results page for the 2009 Prius show that the NF210 springs DID pass, while the DF210 springs DID NOT pass, citing "Not enough suspension stroke".

* Also, while Sigma seems to offer a 2-Part under-bracing kit, both R&D sessions (2009/2010 Priuses) only tested the 2-Point under-brace, and not the rear, where something like a BT Tech Stiffening Plate might go. I'll see if I can get any info on these issues from Michael, I don't want to bother them too much though.

* Speaking to Tanabe yesterday, the Strut Tower Brace issue was made more clear: The Japan version of this brace *did* fit on the US model. However, the bar was touching a rubber grommet or something to the effect that it was deemed a "Not Pass" for fitment. Personally, I would have liked to have kept it anyway, touching parts be damned!

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by deltron3030

. . . a Concept G Exhaust System . . .

Can you get more photos of the Concept G Exhaust System?

In particular, I would like to see:

• flash photo from the rear - I'd like to see if it has baffles of any kind or if it is a 'glass pack'
• photos of the exhaust fitting - in particular the pipe from the front of the muffler to the exhaust pipe. I'm curious if they had to fab a special adapter pipe segment for the muffler (my guess.)

Do you still have the original muffler? The new features discusses an valve that opens under high power to reduce back flow. Any photos you might have to that area of the muffler or the connector/wire would be helpful.

Of all the things you mentioned, the muffler is one area that I believe our NHW11 and NHW20 could use some help.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

[Prius Happy]

I saw your car there and looks like they did a good job doing clean installs... congrats to you man! and congrats to Tanabe!! keep up the good work!

[deltron3030]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

• flash photo from the rear - I'd like to see if it has baffles of any kind or if it is a 'glass pack'
• photos of the exhaust fitting - in particular the pipe from the front of the muffler to the exhaust pipe. I'm curious if they had to fab a special adapter pipe segment for the muffler (my guess.) Bob Wilson

Hey Bob,
A digital dissection of the Concept G can be found here Tanabe USA Inc. - Concept G Exhaust (there are 5 red squares with pics in them. click the left-most square to see the dissected view).

as far as pics go, let me know if this is what you were looking for.


the Concept G kit extends all the way to the front of the car, about 3 feet of piping, and looks to be designed specifically to fit the 2010 prius. I'm not quite sure what you mean tho....

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

Do you still have the original muffler? The new features discusses an valve that opens under high power to reduce back flow. Any photos you might have to that area of the muffler or the connector/wire would be helpful.

I took a look at the stock muffler, and I cannot see anything on it that would indicate any sort of valve or anything atypical for that matter. there is piping, the muffler, exhaust tip, and mounting brackets. perhaps this feature is inside the muffler itself?

[esoniat]

It sure would be nice if two cars a stock and modified were compared blind. That is the drive would not know which he was driving when reporting on the feel and when he tracked it.

You so seldom see people do good testing on this stuff, it is so easy to want it to be better.

Double blind is best, nobody knows what is being tested.

Now if you like the way it looks, that's another matter all together.

[FireEngineer]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

Do you still have the original muffler? The new features discusses an valve that opens under high power to reduce back flow. Any photos you might have to that area of the muffler or the connector/wire would be helpful.


Thanks,
Bob Wilson

The stock muffler has a spring loaded valve with no exposure to outside the muffler shell. Purely based on back-pressure.

Wayne

[deltron3030]

Originally Posted by esoniat

It sure would be nice if two cars a stock and modified were compared blind. That is the drive would not know which he was driving when reporting on the feel and when he tracked it.

You so seldom see people do good testing on this stuff, it is so easy to want it to be better.

Double blind is best, nobody knows what is being tested.

Now if you like the way it looks, that's another matter all together.

i can definitely appreciate that. unfortunately, i doubt it would be very realistic, given the sound and feel differences between the stock and a modded car. There is no blind. It'd basically be a numbers game, with numerous drivers running the same tests over and over (how many times do people research a product and only trust one review?).

The only sort of "credibility" that i,small as it is, can offer is that :

A. i got the parts for free, so there's less Pride-of-Ownership. many times, the reason people are so quick to sing a product's praises has a direct connection to the fact that they parted ways with a lot of money to get it. given my situation, i really have very little reason to say the parts do something that they clearly do not.

B. there's definitely no disputing the new handling characteristics. i have a number of daily drives where i've come to know how the car will react, and post-modification, there have definitely been changes in how the car responds to these. the handling in turns and at higher speeds is simply different.

C. in my initial observations, i was very careful about staying skeptical, but I honestly feel the changes and am convinced something is different here.

Basically, its all hearsay until someone people actually trust reviews the parts. all im doing is giving my observations.

the issue is, i dont know anyone enough (and by extension, trust anyone enough) to be willing to let them take my car and drive it. however, if anyone is in the OC/LA area and wants to meet up, I'd be happy to drive you around a little and you can tell me what you think. unfortunately even then, its impractical that i'd spend that much time convincing enough "test-drivers" to eliminate all the extraneous variables that come into play (like people wanting there to be a difference, people not wanting there to be a difference, people's perception of what "different" is etc etc).

anyway, dunno if that's of interest to anyone, but its out there for anyone who's interested. its become more fun to drive now, so sharing the experience might be cool for the forum.
-david




also, for the person who wanted to see a whole-car shot to see the "pose" of the car; here's a before and after using tanabe's pics to compare:

before:



after:


before:



after:


tanabe's site will no doubt do a better comparison, so take this one with a grain of salt.

[HI MPG]

David,

Thanks for posting your observations and pictures. Although it is a bit hard to tell given the nature of your Prius's paint color, I could see that there's less of a "gap" between the tire and top of wheel well. I think it definitely looks better, and I take your word that it handles better also. Like you had said, when coming to the end of a stop, my car seems to lurch a bit, as though I stepped on the brakes a little too hard even though I try to ease into it. Sounds like the upgrades fixed this issue.

[Dakine50]

Originally Posted by deltron3030

Nope, unfortunately they did not. I doubt it would be very long though, considering the parts that DID pass fitment were already manufactured Prius parts. The strut tower brace will likely take a while, though, depending on whether they adjust the current model, fabricate a new prototype, or whatever.



I basically dropped off my car and said "Michael, please try to get them to keep as many parts on the car as possible". That said, we agreed that they'd test the lowest springs (DF210) first, then the NF210 and leave em on. This is because between the two, the NF210 was almost sure to pass fitment and since they'd already be on the car, it's less work for them. I probably could have gotten the DF210, but to be honest, I've already bottomed out twice with the NF210, and for my taste, wouldn't care to go much lower (though it probably looks great).


Yeah, thats absolutely right. It definitely takes a second of looking at it to notice exactly what's going on with the car. but, without a doubt, you can tell somethings different. I even had the luck of parking next to another 2010 here in Silverlake, and yeah mine was lower, despite the drop not being obvious. The subtlety adds something really "elegant" to the car, just a nicer stance overall. If and when I get new wheels, I think the drop will be more pronounced.


UPDATE: I filled up my tank last week and decided to drive the car as hard as I could, get the lowest milage I could, and have some fun. About 1/2 way through the tank I brought the car in to Tanabe with the car at a 41mpg. Post modifications, I've driven the car just as hard if not harder, and at the blinking gas blip, I'm at 44mpg. dunno if there's an actual correlation to be found there, but take it for what it is: its hard to get below 40 mpg in this car. I tried, really really hard.

Also: does anyone know enough about the 2010 stock suspension to know whether or not a "stabilizer plate" is necessary?


Dakine, can you (or someone) measure the clearance from the car to the tire? I'll post what I have and we can figure out just how much drop I got. thanks in advance!

Sorry for not replying any sooner....

Tire to fender clearance is approx 2 5/8" on my car. Info may be skewed a bit since I'm running 18" rims although I kept the overall tire diameter the same as OEM.

Tire diameters will vary somewhat between manufacturers. Also keep in mind when I took this reading I had about a 1/4 tank of fuel.

Can someone who has 15" rims measure their tire to fender clearance?

On NF210's I think it's typically a 1" drop. I would personally like an 1 1/2" drop.....

[brick]

That drop does look nice.