Gen III, a step backward?

[a64pilot]

OK, before I get flamed let me explain. My only real experience with a Gen II was last year when I rented one for a week, but it seemed easier to get phenominal mileage out of it. I mean consistentatly in the 70's and above if I tried and conditions were just right etc. I know you can't get much of a comparison with just one car so maybe it was just a "good" one?
I just can't do it in the Gen III. I can get mid 60's in it pretty easily, but I can't "game" it as easily and get the consistent 100 MPG bars like I could in the Gen II. MY Gen III isn't broken in yet and the Gen II was. Will it get easier as my Gen III breaks in? Or is the Gen III more of an advance in building a better car for the masses by being bigger, heavier and more powerful, but not as good at great mileage as it's predecessors?
I'm beginning to believe Toyota built a car for the general public and made concessions as far as fuel efficiency is concerned. I'm also wondering how much of the increased mileage that I hear about from a Gen III is form the inaccurate FCD as opposed to an actual mileage increase.
How many of the Gen II owners that now have a Gen III are there seeing better mileage?

[jay_man2]

There's a thread about this with a hypermiler and his followers and someone else going back and forth on this very topic. If I could remember what to search on, I'd post a link.

[john1701a]

These graphs of my real-world data speak for themselves...





So for in August, my average is 53.9 MPG.

The 2010 is clearly delivering higher SUMMER efficiency and I suspect WINTER will be quite a bit more pronounced of an improvement (due to heat-retention design upgrades).
.

[Dan.]

Originally Posted by jay_man2

There's a thread about this with a hypermiler and his followers and someone else going back and forth on this very topic. If I could remember what to search on, I'd post a link.

huh.. couldn't find it.

Here's the rundown from my 35 minutes in a Gen III.

1) Make sure to monitor tire pressure, I've seen dealers lower it to "cush" the ride, but not usually on new cars.
2) Check oil level. MANY of the factory Prius are past the Over-fill, although this issue may have been resolved in more recent shipments.
3) Batteries do break-in, give it about 30,000 miles for this to complete, most of it will be done in the first 10,000 miles though.

=== The above will make negligible improvements ===

=== These will make serious improvements ===
1) Be sure to put in in ECO-Mode. That's what the button is there for.
2) Drive less aggressively (slow steady acceleration, slow steady deceleration).
3) Put the AC "auto" mode with the temp at something a site less aggressive than 60 degrees.
4) Force S4 (every few minutes when your at a complete stop hold the brake (hard) and tap the gas until the engine comes on. Stay stopped for 10 seconds and see if the engine turns off. Practice this somewhere open and deserted so you don't rear-end the guy in front of you the first time you try it. Once the car is warm enough (should happen within 5 minutes for a Gen III) your in S4 and your in-city driving may be greatly improved.

I believe that the Gen III is as capable with less work than the Gen II, but unfortunately there are less tools for the Gen III for those who aren't afraid of the extra work.

Eco-Mode in a 10,000 mi + Gen III with a "just drive it" mindset should net better numbers (on a like terrain and commute) than a "just drive it" mindset in a Gen II. It was certainly my experience (all 30 minutes of it).

11011011

[a64pilot]

Wow, I didn't realize that cold wx made that big of a hit in fuel consumption. I can see why it would for many reasons, just didn't know it was that big. Do you keep it in a garage? Do you pre-heat the engine? I guess neither can be done at work though.
My impression is that if driven "normally" the Gen III get's as good as or maybe even better than a Gen II, just the Gen II is easer to get really great mileage if conditions were right. I know, I like to "play" and seeing multiple 100 MPG bars is fun. I gave up trying to get to the no arrows state on my Gen III and just thy to use the HSI for energy management.
Maybe it's just GEN II's techniques just don't work well with the Gen III? It is a different animal after all

[Dan.]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Maybe it's just GEN II's techniques just don't work well with the Gen III? It is a different animal after all

As far as I could tell every Gen II trick worked in the Gen III. The big difference was RPM -vs- SPEED -vs- GAS-PEDAL-PRESSURE. ECO-Mode does some throttle adjustment that I wasn't expecting and it took me a while to figure out the "curve" so to speak.

If your serious enough to drop a few hundred, I'd recommend one of Danny's Scan Gauges. It will give you the RPM and that should get you on the right path for sure. Otherwise just be patient feel your way through.

11011011

[The Electric Me]

There have been several threads about Generation 3 and how people like it, or dislike it.

One thing I think everyone needs to keep in mind is that change was inevitable. Toyota had to update The Prius. So like the 3rd generation or not, it was coming.

Overall, I think it's seems to be a sucess. I think Toyota did an excellent job of improving some mechanical tangibles. No Gas Bladder, Thermos, New Beltless Engine, Heat exchange system. I personally think they did a great job freshning the external look, while maintaining a "Prius" benchmark.

I'm not going to comment on interior, because I haven't lived with either Generation 2 or Generation 3, and I think you judge an interior after you've lived with it for a while. First impressions? The 3rd generation seems more "normal" car like. People loved the 2nd generation, I loved the second generation, but Toyota couldn't continue to sell that car unchanged forever.

To the original poster, if you can get mid 60's MPG in your 3rd generation then I don't think there is much to complain about.

Step forward? Step Backwards? Neither...inevitable change.

[a64pilot]

I'm digging my Auto-tap out of storage. I plan on using it with a Dell netbook to see what data it will display from the Can-bus. It's excellent for a GM, but I think I had heard somewhere that Toyota didn't release what it put's on the bus. I should know by tomorrow.

Oh and I'm not beating on the Gen III. I bought one, I love it. I just think it's part of the evolution of almost every "ground breaking" car to evolve into something more mainstream. The Datsun 240Z and Miata are / were excellent cars, but became more luxurious and heavy, but less sporty.

[Bobsprius]

Originally Posted by john1701a

These graphs of my real-world data speak for themselves...





So for in August, my average is 53.9 MPG.

The 2010 is clearly delivering higher SUMMER efficiency and I suspect WINTER will be quite a bit more pronounced of an improvement (due to heat-retention design upgrades).
.

Thanks John for the nice post. A question seems that your mileage dropped in July/August some, and just confirming, I suspect due to the A/C use? Did you use it often?? You have the ominous cold winters like Buffalo so I am hopeful as well, that the New thermal change with Exhaust Gas will cause better mileage as well.

Thanks for the post...

[SageBrush]

OP, 70+ mpg in a Prius requires gliding, so I'll rephrase your question as "how do I glide in my G3 Prius?"

It isn't obvious from the HSI I gather, so I guess you will need to hook up a scangauge or similar device and learn to correlate to the HSI. High MPG is doable, as Ken from Japan has demonstrated.

Have fun, and expect success.