Insight gets better MPG than Prius???

[ceric]

Honda is working on a full-hybrid as we speak.
Honda did not believe in the potential of hybrids, and Toyota has proven them wrong.
They focused on fuel-cell and NG. Now, the new CEO refocused the effort on a capable hybrid system. Note that Toyota has so many patents lined up along the way, Honda needs not only
invent their own, but also try to avoid those "land mines". It may take a while.

[Indyking]

Originally Posted by ceric

Honda is working on a full-hybrid as we speak.
Honda did not believe in the potential of hybrids, and Toyota has proven them wrong.
They focused on fuel-cell and NG. Now, the new CEO refocused the effort on a capable hybrid system. Note that Toyota has so many patents lined up along the way, Honda needs not only
invent their own, but also try to avoid those "land mines". It may take a while.

It may take a while but when it comes... it will be time to say bye bye to my Prius and hapily get back to my Honda-only mode!

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by cantgoback

I tried both of these sites and compared the 2010 Prius, HCH, Insight and the Prius came up with slightly better emissions than the other two, but they were all pretty close.

Also the info from the other thread I referenced can be found here:
2010 Prius
Civic Hybrid
2010 Insight
Not certain how to interpret these documents, but comparing some of the numbers shows the 2010 Prius to be cleaner in most categories over the other two. However....

It took a while, but finally found it for the 2010 Prius:
Toyota Press Release on Prius Product Info

Tideland -- you were right -- Prius is T2B3. As for the HCH, I didn't look for official documents, but did come across several websites stating that it's T2B2 (that's good enough for me). And I think one website said the Insight is actually T2B3.

Based on the above conflicting finds, now I'm confused which car has the lower emissions...

Well that's the thing. We have to rely on what the manufacturer says. I'm pretty sure there's a gov't site somewhere that lists them all out.

Originally Posted by F8L

Sorry, was comparing the Gen II Prius and HCH-II

Ahh ok.

Originally Posted by cwerdna

I usually use Fuel Economy and to a lesser degree Green Vehicle Guide | US EPA.

Thanks but I can't find the tiers and bin listings. Those were the two sites I checked.

[darogers]

I test drove the insight because it's so much cheaper than the Prius. I traded in a Honda Accord, and I loved it... So I'm not biased against Honda. I really wanted to go with a Honda because I figured competition would drive Toyota to drop the price of the Prius.

The insight was the most uncomfortable car I've driven. The split console was dangerous. The only way I could position the steering wheel so it didn't obstruct the view of either console was with it an inch above my knees. It was also a rougher ride than the prius and there were huge blind spots.

I got 30 mpg in the Insight on my test drive. I did a decent mix of interstate and city. The engine never shut off at a stop light. It had great pick up (because the electric motor acts like a turbo charger). When I test drove the Prius I got 45 over similar terrain.

Maybe with some very careful driving you can get the insight up to 60 mpg but I didn't see it. It's basically a stripped down version of the Prius. I also didn't get the feeling anyone at the dealership knew the first thing about it. The Toyota people were very knowledgeable, and that counts for a lot.

[sdleo726]

Common sense would dictate that an economically driven Honda Insight would get better MPGs than a poorly driven Toyota Prius, but isn't that why we have the EPA estimates to provide consumers with a comparison based on similar driving habits?

In reality, comparing how Honda's IMA to Toyota's HSD operate is like comparing apples and oranges. They taste different, but they both provide nourishment.

[austingreen]

The honda people were more easy to deal with than the toyota people. The insight had a few things that are much better than the prius - steering feel, dash board, transmission feel, suspension feel on smooth, price. But the thing is stripped. I get my updated 17" wheels on wednesday (damn shipping problem) and that should help move my prius above the hondas steering and suspension. I think I can get used to the dashboard funky transmission. That leaves only price as the main difference. I think I will own the car 10 years. The bigger storage, stronger engine, less jittery ride, ev, fuel economy made the prius a no brainer over the insight. I got mine last week and am already getting used to the funky transmission. I really like the engine off at stop lights with airconditioning or heat working well (both have been on in our funky weather over thanksgiving weekend). I doubt the insight can get close to the prius in the city mpg, and that is at least half my milage. On the highway the prius virtues are strong (longer wheel base, stronger engine) so I don't care if milage is the same.

Originally Posted by darogers

I test drove the insight because it's so much cheaper than the Prius. I traded in a Honda Accord, and I loved it... So I'm not biased against Honda. I really wanted to go with a Honda because I figured competition would drive Toyota to drop the price of the Prius.

The insight was the most uncomfortable car I've driven. The split console was dangerous. The only way I could position the steering wheel so it didn't obstruct the view of either console was with it an inch above my knees. It was also a rougher ride than the prius and there were huge blind spots.

I got 30 mpg in the Insight on my test drive. I did a decent mix of interstate and city. The engine never shut off at a stop light. It had great pick up (because the electric motor acts like a turbo charger). When I test drove the Prius I got 45 over similar terrain.

Maybe with some very careful driving you can get the insight up to 60 mpg but I didn't see it. It's basically a stripped down version of the Prius. I also didn't get the feeling anyone at the dealership knew the first thing about it. The Toyota people were very knowledgeable, and that counts for a lot.

[F8L]

Originally Posted by austingreen

The honda people were more easy to deal with than the toyota people. The insight had a few things that are much better than the prius - steering feel, dash board, transmission feel, suspension feel on smooth, price. But the thing is stripped. I get my updated 17" wheels on wednesday (damn shipping problem) and that should help move my prius above the hondas steering and suspension. I think I can get used to the dashboard funky transmission. That leaves only price as the main difference. I think I will own the car 10 years. The bigger storage, stronger engine, less jittery ride, ev, fuel economy made the prius a no brainer over the insight. I got mine last week and am already getting used to the funky transmission. I really like the engine off at stop lights with airconditioning or heat working well (both have been on in our funky weather over thanksgiving weekend). I doubt the insight can get close to the prius in the city mpg, and that is at least half my milage. On the highway the prius virtues are strong (longer wheel base, stronger engine) so I don't care if milage is the same.

I'm curious in what ways you consider the transmission "funky" and how it "feels" weird.

If you want the Prius to handle better with less body roll you might look into a TRD rear sway bar. Someone recently installed one and said it made a huge improvement in reducing body roll. 17" rims and tires won't reduce body roll.

[austingreen]

I would be interested in any suspension parts that have tested well on a 2010. It seems like most of the parts have been made for the G2 priuses, and I will wait. The car definitely corners better with the 17s and feels like it rolls less, but it could be that it is just that it was more well behaved.

Transmission does not react the way a manual or normal automatic does. I have never driven a cvt. There is no linear power band feel then a shift to another gear ratio. I have a couple of hills that the cvt seems to always pick the wrong gear ratio, then spins up. On the insight you could at least pick a gear ratio. I'm sure its all to optimize mileage, but it would be nice if the transmission would pick a higher torque rpm in power mode, and allowed you to lock in a gear ratio (as the insight does).

Originally Posted by F8L

I'm curious in what ways you consider the transmission "funky" and how it "feels" weird.

If you want the Prius to handle better with less body roll you might look into a TRD rear sway bar. Someone recently installed one and said it made a huge improvement in reducing body roll. 17" rims and tires won't reduce body roll.

[brick]

I'm the kind of person who likes to be "in tune" with my car, so I get the complaints about the feel of the transmission. For me the solution was adding a small analog tachometer so that I can see what the ICE is doing in real time. It did wonders for my understanding of the system, and the visual cue instantly cured my doubts about WTF was going on in front of the fire wall. HSD makes a whole lot of sense once you can see what it's trying to do!

The tach is about the simplest gauge you can add to a Prius but probably the most useful as far as I am concerned. And I'm sure it can be done on a 2010 if you can find the ignition signal from the ECU. The ScanGauge does give you RPM but I really like the needle vs. the granular digital readout.

[hsiaolc]

Originally Posted by Indyking

I agree 100% with you that the Insight is no match for the new Prius, but they are cars from different classes, which reflect their different prices too. I'm a Honda guy, have always been and, based on my experience with this only Toyota I have owned so far, I'm coming back to be a Honda-only owner after done with my Prius. Yes, I had issues with wind/road noise with my past CR-V and Civics (chronic problem with Hondas but not so much with the Odyssey), but cheap interior feeling was never an issue with any of my Hondas. Also, I just love paying 20 bucks for OCI, tire rotation, etc in my Honda Odyssey and I wish my Prius was not almost 5 times higher… I also love the costumer service in the Honda dealers in my area... I do think that the Insight will get better and they may change it to be more competitive with the Prius. If that becomes a Honda goal, I have no doubts they can soon stay ahead in the game just like they have done with the Odyssey, Fit, and CR-V beating the Sienna, Yaris, and RAV-4 respectively. Camry is one that is still ahead of Accord, which I really find unbelievable because the Accord is a much better car in my opinion, but sales data is showing that the gap between the 2 keeps narrowing...

I totally Agree with you!!! Accord is a much better car!
HONDA is just much better full stop.
Shame with the insight. This is the second Toyota I've owned. I had an Acura RL before.
Actually till this day I don't know why I have a Prius.
Can't wait for the Honda CRZ out next year. I think I will trade my Prius in for the CRZ