Getting excited about next Gen. Prius Plug-in

[DaveinOlyWA]

as a first offering, 9-10 miles is good. it still puts you in all EV for the shorter "run to the corner for a minute" trips which are the worst for your overall mileage.

and i also think that later down the road, extended range options will be provided just like upgrading the stereo is now...

lets see the base plug in at "neighborhood" range of 8-9 miles

then another "city" range of 20-25 miles

and then a "commuter" range of 40 miles

that way, each can choose what they want based on what their specific needs are... better than a "one size fits all approach"..

as little as 8 miles would be, it would work for me, my one way trip to work is 7 miles and i am allowed to plug in at work, so no prob!!

*edit**
one last thing...

sorry, just couldnt resist.

but look at what happened with gm's "all or nothing" approach... maybe Toyota is doing it right by starting out small and manageable, collecting data and then implementing a larger pack option after they are sure they can do it effectively

[ken1784]

In my understanding, the plug-in Prius works as follows;

1. initial EV mode (called depression mode): Prius runs using battery down to some SOC, say 30%.
2. normal HV mode (called sustaining mode): Prius runs as normal hybrid vehicle trying to maintain the target SOC, say 30%. There is no aggressive charging to raise the SOC because it is not efficient way to do aggressive charging using gasoline.
Please refer to page-14 of following presentation.
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/ir/presen...02presen_2.pdf

Also, please forget the 8-10 miles of EV range on the current plug-in Prius.
It is just a prototype for field testing using two existing NiMH batteries.
The EV range for the production plug-in Prius using Li-ion has not been announced yet, so we can't discuss about it.

Anyway, I prefer Toyota version of plug-in than any after market ones, such as Hymotion or DIY things because...
- It'll have Toyota warranty.
- The warranty length will be as long as the vehicle life.
- It'll offer pure EV mode up to 100km/h(62mph).
- It'll have sophisticated charging/discharging system to maintain maximum battery life.

Ken@Japan

[tochatihu]

Those excited about new Prius can sign up for email updates at:

The 3rd Generation Prius

(you have to tell them your zip code)

[xsmatt81]

I am not sure why the Volt is even a concern seeing what kinda of shape GM is in right now. I doubt it will get off the ground, GM may not be around by the start of next year. Of course if they get bought out, then the project may carry over to the new company.

the new prius should be great.

[FreddieVee]

If the auto manufacturers can agree on a common external charging configuration, so that all plug-ins can use the same attachment, then local cities might be talked into putting up charging posts than any any hybrid or fully electric car can plug into. Placing a dime or quarter into the post and receiving a charge while at work, shopping, etc., might solve many of the problems discussed in this thread, IMHO.

[molgrips]

With that argument, a Volt's claimed EV range of 40 miles will really only be 20 miles, because you can only go 20 miles before you have to turn around and return home

No - 40 miles is 40 miles. Even stupid people know that going somewhere 20 miles away and coming back equals 40 miles.

With the Prius you'll have double the advertised Ev range with a long enough trip.

Eh?

Don't Volt bash for the sake of it - it's a good system. I'm excited at the prospect of there being more technical options available - that is, a series or a parallel hybrid. There are possible advantages to the series hybrid in that the recharging engine can be specifically tuned for max efficiency at one specific engine speed, and that never need change. Don't forget that the Prius runs one motor as a generator into another - which is lossy too.

As for 8-10 miles not being enough - I bet 80% of the journeys in the town where I live would be covered. It's only 4 miles into town from where I live, which is right on the edge.

[jyl]

Interesting discussion. Got me thinking.

Our Prius gets driven appx 35 miles/day, that is daily use excluding vacation roadtrips.

Suppose a plug-in hybrid gets 100 mpg in EV mode, has an "X" mile range in EV mode, then gets 45 mpg in hybrid mode, and suppose the car starts the day fully charged but is not re-charged until nighttime, also no regenerative charging. The curve of cumulative mpg in a given day is a flat line at 100 mpg up to X miles/day, then drops off sharply and asymptotes down toward 45 mpg for miles/day above X. This is the curve shown in the slidepack linked by Ken, page 14.

If the plug-in Prius has X = 10 miles, then at 35 miles/day the cumulative mpg is 52 mpg, only a 7 mpg improvement over the 45 mpg of a non-plug-in hybrid. If X = 20 miles, then at 35 miles/day the cumulative mpg is 62 mpg, a 17 mpg improvement.

Depending on the extra cost of the plug-in feature, a 7 mpg improvement may not be enough for me to care. My 08 works fine, after all. But a 17 mpg improvement would get my attention.

[jyl]

Also, the slidepack shows the results of a survey that Toyota did. 22% of users expected EV range of 10 km, 30% said 20 km, 20% said 40 km. So even a 20 km EV range would satisfy barely over 50% of users' expectations.

This makes me hopeful that the factory plug-in Prius will have EV range greater than 20 km (12.5 miles), since otherwise the car would fail to meet the expectations of nearly 1/2 the potential owners. Hopefully that is how Toyota will look at it, anyway.

[FreddieVee]

I think that the facts and figures may be getting in the way of the realities. Most people who take polls really don't consider the depth of the question or do they have little knowledge of their actual driving needs. The first thing that must be done is to get the general public in the right frame of mind to reverse the average American's love affair with big and/or powerful cars. When gas went over $4.25 in my area, I started seeing less and less big pickup trucks and large SUVs, and it even lasted for a while as the price dropped into the $3's, $2's and then under $2, but as the price got to $1.75, I noticed a lot of large pickups and SUVs returning to the streets.

The car manufactures must get the electric and hybrid cars out there and then as technologies improve, the people will come around. Battery technology will be the sticking point for quite a while. Many years ago, I read about a battery that could be drained and refilled in an operation similar to fueling a vehicle with gas. If that technology comes to fruition, then there will be no need for hybrids, but as long as batteries can not give the driving consumer his daily needs between overnight recharging, there will be a need for hybrids.

I mentioned earlier in this thread the need for charging posts so that people can recharge their electric cars while shopping and while at work. That can be an intermediate step in the transition from pure internal combustion to pure electric.

[FreddieVee]

PS: I got the latest "Consumer Reports" today and I read the very interesting article about their conversion of a standard Prius to Plug-In.