Just lost all my respect for Car and Driver

[Mr. Nelsby]

Whoops, quick edit. Even though there are 2010 reviews on the page, the ranking is actually for the 2009, but I still stand by my loss or respect for C&D



...they gave the new Prius a 1/10 for "Enthusiast appeal" which they explain as being how much a car enthusiast would be interested in "driving said car on a Sunday afternoon" or something like that...

... I mean really. I can understand that a luxury car centric "enthusiast" might not consider the Prius on the top of their list in terms of Sunday drive cars, but to claim that this car is something like enthusiat kryptonite shows that whoever is giving out these rankings is just being spiteful for their own silly reasons...

I mean, who determines who is an "enthusiast" anyway? I feel like an enthusiast when it comes to my current prius and I would give myself a 9/10 in terms of my excitement when it comes to the idea of driving a 2010 next fall when I get one...

Plah... what silliness...

Here's the link to the page:
2009 Toyota Prius - Car And Driver

[wvgasguy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nelsby

So on their 2010 Prius Page, they gave the new Prius a 1/10 for "Enthusiast appeal" which they explain as being how much a car enthusiast would be interested in "driving said car on a Sunday afternoon" or something like that...

... I mean really. I can understand that a luxury car centric "enthusiast" might not consider the Prius on the top of their list in terms of Sunday drive cars, but to claim that this car is something like enthusiat kryptonite shows that whoever is giving out these rankings is just being spiteful for their own silly reasons...

I mean, who determines who is an "enthusiast" anyway? I feel like an enthusiast when it comes to my current prius and I would give myself a 9/10 in terms of my excitement when it comes to the idea of driving a 2010 next fall when I get one...

Plah... what silliness...

Here's the link to the page:
2009 Toyota Prius - Car And Driver

I love cars, always have (in High School I was able to drive 55, 57 chevies, camaro's Chevelles and Nova's, vettes and even a 40 model Ford with a 327 Chevy engine, w/ 16" slicks and open headers) My dad's family car and the one I learned to drive in was a 64 Impala w/ a 327 4bbl, hurst shifter and Mickey Thompson tires with Cragar mags.


I have found driving the TCH (and expect the Prius to be the same) as "interesting" as driving my "enthusiast" cars. On this list I've had Two 300ZX's, a Vette, an AudiTT, a 350Z, and an Infiniti FX45. They were all fun to drive but most of the time I simply was driving them nowhere near the limits. They simply looked cool. Looking cool is 90% of what people get out of these cars as very few people race on weekends or consistantly exceed the limits to any degree.

But when I got into the TCH, every time I got in it I monitored my milage, tracked the trip information by the minute and experimented in beating my last best results on the same strech of road. It kept me engaged in the process.

Personally, the Hybrid allows me more enthusiast "opportunities" (that is getting excited about driving) than any of my "cool" cars.

[bestmapman]

It is just Prius envy.

[wvgasguy]

The Car and Driver magazine was performed by idiots that didn't understand the system. It sounded like they thought it was cool to run in "B" a lot of the time

Additionally, MotorTrend, in their comparison to the Insight seemd to critize the Insight and praise the prius all through the article but at the end they rated the Insight a 1st, simply because of price. It didn't sound like in their review that the Insight was anywhere near comparable to the Prius, yet their ranking came out for the Insight???

If that is the key variable then I don't see how any of them ever rate a BWW as 1st in a review, but they always do.

[accordingly]

Enthusiast appeal refers to how fun the vehicle is to drive. Not how many miles it goes per gallon, not how infrequently it breaks down, and not how technologically advanced it is. And certainly not how much Prius owners like their Prius.

They are absolutely correct, the Prius is not a car anyone who enjoys cars would recommend for autocrossing or taking on twisty roads in the mountains. It has horrible steering feel and not very much power. It rides more like a couch than a car. This is what all Toyotas, not just the Prius, are designed to drive like. They are made for people who want to go from point A to point B without caring about how many Gs they can pull in the corners or how crisp the handling feels.

That's why Car and Driver always puts the Hondas on its best cars lists and never the Toyotas- they are simply not designed to be fun to drive physically. Enthusiast appeal does not have anything to do with how fun it is to brag about your mileage or technology, it has to do with how the car feels on the road. A car enthusiast dreams of driving a 650Hp McLaren F1 with no power steering on a track as hard and as fast as they can drive, not pressing buttons and looking at cartoon screens while floating down the road on the way to run errands. That's fun to do too, but it's not what I'd call "enthusiast driving".

[wvgasguy]

Originally Posted by accordingly

Enthusiast appeal refers to how fun the vehicle is to drive. Not how many miles it goes per gallon, ...

Enthusiast appeal does not have anything to do with how fun it is to brag about your mileage or technology, it has to do with how the car feels on the road.

That's Bull#$%@

What makes C&D (or you) the people who get to defing "enthusiast"
en·thu·si·ast : a person filled with enthusiasm: as a: one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit <a sports car enthusiast> b: one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest
I found my TCH "FUN" to drive (who is to also say it has nothing to do with cornering or acceleration?) I look forward to the Prius in the same respect.

Why is the definition (in your words) limited to simply cars that have a certain feel on the road. Talk about snobbery.

I quit writing on a blog in Edmunds because some kid driving an Accord insisted that my FX45 simply could not be an enthusiast car. I guess just because it could tow my 215hp jetski or my JD tractor kept him from recognizing how it handled (and especially how it sounded).

[robbyr2]

They are absolutely correct, the Prius is not a car anyone who enjoys cars would recommend for autocrossing or taking on twisty roads in the mountains.

If the cost of having your enthusiast experience is not a factor, you might be right. The way I look at it, though, I would prefer driving a car that doesn't drive me to the poorhouse. My driving this past year is about 10% over what it was the prior year. The cost (vs my Chevy Blazer) of gas is down by 70%. But of course C & D writers most likely aren't paying for the gas for their tests.

As for driving in the mountains- my Prius does a heck of a lot better than my Blazer on corners on our Rocky Mtn roads. And, while it can't go some of the places I've driven my Blazer (some I wouldn't do again!), I can afford to drive further!

[accordingly]

Originally Posted by wvgasguy

What makes C&D (or you) the people who get to defing "enthusiast"

...the fact that Car and Driver publishes the magazine? They maks a magazine for a certain type of car enthusiast, not people who have any form of enthusiasm over their vehicles at all.

Offroad magazine is for a different sort of car enthusiast, just as hot rod, import tuner, mustang monthly and lowrider magazine cater to their type of car enthusiast. If you can't understand why none of these car enthusiast magazines would give the Prius high marks even though many people (including me) are enthusiastic about the Prius then I can't help you.

I have a friend who is a professional football player, yet sometimes he acts very unprofessionally...

[shawnb2]

You guys are reading in to all of this way too much. They are huge Honda fanboys over there and are probably paid more by Honda than Toyota for advertising and whatever else. The Insight is a far cry from being in the same league as the new Prius. It's all well and fine it handles better, but it does so with a much more harsh ride. It's noisy inside, it's smaller, less expensive yes, but really as Honda markets the car as the Hybrid for everyone. It's meant to appeal to a broader range of people. Others that own Prii are more concerned with a comfortable ride, better fuel economy, more interior comfort and space, a more solid feel, not a tin can with little to no sound deadening material. Just call Prius owners more refined and don't mind spending a little more to be so. Car and Driver lost my respect when they did the format change of the magazine. They cheapened it up. May have the same people there, but alot has changed for them in a short amount of time. I certainly won't be renewing when that time comes. It's a shame, they were always the first magazine I'd look at first to find someting out about a car.

[ceric]

I don't get it. Why did you have "respect" for a car magazine?
I read all of them frequently, and I never had "respect" for them.
I read them to see photos and specs.
I take their "opinions" with lots of salt since I have my own.