Who killed the electric car part II Toyota

[garygid]

The battery in the Gen3 would need to be about 40 times the useful capacity (40 x 0.5 kWh = 20 kWh) to make it have a reasonably useful PHEV range (perhaps 40 miles). Because of the extra weight, the range might be less. And, the battery might cost $10,000?

[blueumbrella]

IMHO, I think the issue here is cost and protecting their technology. If they did sell the plug-in at this time, many could not afford it and many would just not pay that amount of money. I believe the leasing only restriction has much to do with Toyota not wanting another car company buying their PEV and learning their secrets this early in the game.

I have read many times that Toyota has lost big bucks on the Prius for years in order to keep the car affordable enough for the average person, which most likely accounts for the cheaper interior components (rattle and squeaks) we complain about.

[cycledrum]

I think there are some key questions that needed to be addressed about the EV-1 in the WKTEC movie, like ...

* About how much did it cost to produce an EV-1?

* What warranty could have been offered on the traction battery?

* How much would it have cost to replace a traction battery out of warranty?

* How much would GM have needed to sell an EV-1 for to make it viable?

* Could GM have made money on the EV-1?

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I would really like to know how the Tesla Roadster owner's are getting along with their cars.

[hill]

Don't convict Toyota quite yet. The this bit of good news ... sorta ... posted just a short while ago:

Toyota's Sets PHEV Release Date

What perturbs me, is Toyota's V.P. being so reluctant to see it happen. He justifies his reluctance by promulgating an old lie about Toyota's RAV4-EV ... rather than come clean. How can Toyota come clean? With TRUTH! The truth is that the only reason Toyota built the Prius in the 1st place, was because they feared GM would build one, and leave Toyota in the technological dust. Now ... here we are again ... manufacturers up the wazoo ... setting production dates for both EV's as WELL as PHEV's. Once again ... Toyota is in the uncomfortable place of having to out-build the competition.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by cycledrum

I think there are some key questions that needed to be addressed about the EV-1 in the WKTEC movie, like ...

* About how much did it cost to produce an EV-1?

* What warranty could have been offered on the traction battery?

* How much would it have cost to replace a traction battery out of warranty?

* How much would GM have needed to sell an EV-1 for to make it viable?

* Could GM have made money on the EV-1?

* How much salvage money did GM gain by crushing the EV-1s?

They could have offered them for the same salvage price and let the new owners deal with maintenance and disposal.

Bob Wilson

[karaoke-rockstar]

The guy in the you tube video is stupid. Toyota is not the number 1 car company by luck or by accident. battery tech right now is moving at the speed of light. Right now there are many companies all racing to compete and win the X prize for the best car. The best battery chemistry and a low cost to produce it will be a very big factor in winning this coveted prize. At the current time lithium-ion is all the rage, but Toyota just finished a secret 3 year study of lithium-ion batteries and decided that it wasn't worth the money. It doesn't make good business sense to invest in mass production of a vehicle right away only to have a flood of competitors come up with something better in just 2 or 3 years from now. by the time GM comes out with the Volt in 2012 it might be cheaper to buy from some competitor who has leap frogged the industry with a barium titanate battery chemistry that is currently in development. early tests for this and other batteries using nanotechnology have given results 10 times better than lithium-ion and at a lower cost to make them. Which reduces the price of the vehicle. Toyota may never mass produce that car because the rapidly evolving technology may cause it to be a dinosaur by the time the lease time trial is over, not because Toyota is trying to kill the electric car. If GM makes millions of Volts that don't sell well because they want over 40 grand per car and the technology has been quickly surpassed by then. They can go back to washington and cry to congress for
another taxpayer bailout which Obama will give them because it's now government motors and it's to big to fail no matter how many times GM screws up. Toyota's motto is and will always be, not rushing to be first to market, but best to market. and there is something to be said about longevity of toyota vehicles. About 80% of thier vehicles made in the last 20 years are still on the road this was in a recent Toyota commercial. You will never hear that claim being made for any american cars.

[octavia]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

* How much salvage money did GM gain by crushing the EV-1s?

They could have offered them for the same salvage price and let the new owners deal with maintenance and disposal.

Bob Wilson

I've wondered about some of the internal history around the EV-1. The sequence of events makes no logical sense. Is it possible that the powers-that-be at GM made decisions out of emotion? I have a hard time believing there isn't more to the story but in the footage I saw, people were looking pretty irritated.

Was it just a simple power struggle? Did the EV go down in flames due to an executive temper tantrum?

[PriusSport]

Ridiculous conclusion about "killing the electric car". The media is full of commercial agendas.

Toyota can't make enough Priuses to keep up with the demand. The public is way ahead of the media.

[hampdenwireless]

Originally Posted by octavia

I've wondered about some of the internal history around the EV-1. The sequence of events makes no logical sense. Is it possible that the powers-that-be at GM made decisions out of emotion? I have a hard time believing there isn't more to the story but in the footage I saw, people were looking pretty irritated.

Was it just a simple power struggle? Did the EV go down in flames due to an executive temper tantrum?

I would say it was a power struggle. The group that was for building the EV1 lost. The anti EV guys where frightened and reacted stupidly and we have all paid for their fear. Wagoner in my opinion was the problem and I am glad to see him gone.

[patsparks]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

Toyota sold over 1 million hybrid electric cars. Assuming 15,000 miles per year and 10% of those miles are using electric power, that would be:

1,000,000 * 1,500 ~= 1.5 Billion electric miles per year

Bob Wilson

But Bob,
100% of the energy comes from burning petrol in an internal combustion engine.
Electric (from the grid or renewable sources) miles = 0