Prius Recall due to floor mats? 2 yrs ago Prius owners said there's more to it than that...

[cossie1600]

I am with you. I am not trying to be mean, but a moron who can't drive the car properly is making everyone panic? I have had stuck throttle, lost my brakes in multiple cars in different situations, each time I have done something to soften the blow and in most cases diffuse the situation. Just two months ago, I accidently rolled my car down a 15 degree hill with no brakes in reverse. I came down the hill at 20-25mph. At first I was looking for a soft spot to hit, then I realize I can rev the engine and drop the clutch to stop the car that way. A Lexus ES350 can't go from 80-140 in anything less than 10 sec, you telling me he doesn't have enough time to think about using netural or try other things other than to ride the brakes.

Originally Posted by DeanFL

The CA trooper accident - was in a Lexus ES, right? So this vehicle has the typical console floor shift, which should go into neutral immediately. Something doesn't make sense; as you say with a highly trained person at the wheel...

My story:
I had a new 1969 Dodge Charger. In 1970 had an accident; sideswiped by a pickup truck. The impact apparently broke my V8's motor mount, the engine pivoted and then bent the accelerator linkage. This caused the engine to go full bore as I was braking from about 40mph, across the roadway. Almost at a stop, the rear tires were screeching rubber and I had (luckily) the sense to shift into neutral. The engine speed up to max RPM before I had a chance to turn the car off. I had my "shoulder belt" on and wasn't bounced around too badly. The car was never the same after repairs.

So, the Trooper driver with the supposed experience of maneuvering a police vehicle - one would think he'd have the background and knowledge to safely stop the vehicle. I don't know the particulars, so I have a lot of assumptions.

[direstraits71]

Originally Posted by RodJo

$600-1000? NO, THANK GOD. The MSRP is about $200, so who's charging 3-5 times that for mats? If that's the case, they're not car dealers, they're thieves!

/>

That sounds a lot like this quote: Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. - Mark Twain, a Biography

[fuzzy1]

... I don't know the particulars, so I have a lot of assumptions.

Unfortunately a huge number of readers here seem to 'know' all the particulars, without waiting for the final investigation reports to be released.

From past incidents I've seen, sometimes these assumptions are right, but more often they are wrong.

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by Fstr911

I did a couple tests today.

I thought I'd I should practice a throttle emergency (just in case there is a gremlin in the software). Here is what I found (performed in a 2010 Prius):

Test 1: Never lifted my foot off the gas pedal, then at 30 MPH the shifter was moved to neutral for about a second.
Result: Car stayed in drive.

Test 2: Never lifted my foot off the gas pedal, then at 30 MPH the shifter was moved to neutral and held there for about three or four seconds.
Result: Car went into neutral.


Test 3: At about 10 mph while driving in a straight line (no one else on the road) I pushed and held the power button for about three or four seconds.

Result: The engine shut down, power steering went away but I could still steer the car. Brakes worked; appeared to need more pressure, but at the low speed I can't say for sure how different it was.

When restarting the car it seemed to take a few seconds to "get it together". The "ready" light went on but the car would not respond. I shut it down again and restarted everything went ok. I must have pissed the car off.

Funny thing: 10 minutes later while stopped at a red light someone ran into the back of me at about <5 MPH. We both got out, took a look, no damage (not even a scratch) said good day and went our ways. It was an old beat up Toyota that hit me. Could it have been that old girl just wanted to kiss my young cute Prius?

i tested my '08 Prius the last couple of days

WOT at 30 MPH
then increasing at 10 MPH increments
shifting to Neutral at each interval immediately disengaged the transmission, and also disengaged the throttle, even with the accelerator fully depressed
tried this from 30 MPH up to 80 MPH at 10 MPH intervals

same test using the PARK button ... after 3 MPH the car will immediately shift to Neutral when depressing PARK

there was no lag time in either test

fortunately i was not rear ended this week,
but i was rear ended one month ago, and have 20 weeks of PT to deal with

[DeanFL]

right after picking up my car from the body shop back then, I noti

Originally Posted by RodJo

I assume your Charger had a mechanical shift linkage. In the drive-by-wire systems, the computer controls everything. So my concern would be whether the car would go into neutral under the suspected failure scenario. I hope I never have to find out.

Yes, that's right. When the motor mount broke and the engine torqued to one side, it bent the linkage between the carburator and the firewall area. The 'old days' of mechanical linkage between the gas pedal and engine.

I noticed the twist/torque feel of the engine very soon picking it up from the body shop after repairs. Although they replaced the linkage, never "linked" the bending with the broken motor mount... Had to return to the shop for replacement.

Some folks may feel more comfy with that pre-drive by wire mechanical link - I'll take computer-controlled electronics every day. Unless/until there's failures in that tech too...
And watchful of the floor mats - glad to have the sturdily-mounted '10 mats...

[radioprius1]

Originally Posted by RodJo

$600-1000? NO, THANK GOD. The MSRP is about $200, so who's charging 3-5 times that for mats? If that's the case, they're not car dealers, they're thieves!

I'll nominate you as the named plaintiff.

I meant it sarcastically, because the dealer had one of those bulls*** packages that was $600-$1000 that included a bunch of fake stuff and floormats, etc. Basically one of those profit-padders that they refused to remove or discount. I also paid $300 for a $50 tint job from the dealer. But they gave me a ton for my POS LandRover LR3 trade-in (not C4C!) that was about to die so it's all even.

[tumbleweed]

Originally Posted by RodJo

I assume your Charger had a mechanical shift linkage. In the drive-by-wire systems, the computer controls everything. So my concern would be whether the car would go into neutral under the suspected failure scenario. I hope I never have to find out.

I wondered about that also, I have tried this test before but I wasn't sure I had done it at full throttle. So yesterday I got up to about 40 MPH held the throttle to the floor and put it in N. No problems whatever, it goes into Neutral in 1 second (not 2 seconds as previously reported in other threads), the engine slows to idle speed, and everything keeps working just fine, as Philobeddoe reported above. I repeated the test several times and it works the same way each time. When you see it works you can just go back to D and drive on down the road. Give it a try.

I have used the power button to do the test also, as Fstr911 describes, my results were the same as he posted. If you decide to do a test using the power button you need to be going fast enough so the car doesn't actually try to go int park, anything over 10 MPH is fine. But as everyone else has suggested N is the best choice anyway because it's quicker.

It should also be said that if your throttle is stuck wide open you can stop the car with the brakes. You have to put them on good and hard and they will have more than enough power to overcome the engine, even on cars with a lot more power that our Prius. The way you could get into trouble would be if you just applied the brakes part way, then they might overheat to the point where they wouldn't work any more.

[ggood]

FWIW - I think this AOL Autos editor did a pretty good job (better than ABC) of reporting, summarizing and balancing the known facts and issues, and the personal, Toyota and gov't experiences and responses:

Runaway Toyotas: Fact Or Fiction?

[windstrings]

Originally Posted by cossie1600

I am with you. I am not trying to be mean, but a moron who can't drive the car properly is making everyone panic? Just two months ago, I accidently rolled my car down a 15 degree hill with no brakes in reverse.

I'm sorry, but this is too good to pass up!........

And being a good driver... just exactly "how" did you accidentally roll your car down a 15 degree hill backwards?

[Earman]

Good article, thanks!

I agree with most comments which say that if the problem occurs there are ways to get the car under control, fortunately.

However, I don't think that we can assume the problem is exclusively due to floor mats, when there are documented cases where there were no floor mats in the vehicle, or the floor mats were proper and in the right position, simply because the runaway throttle control problem cannot be re-created in testing conditions. The article has a good quote:

""So far nobody has been able to recreate the computer glitch that would cause the car to take off," ABC's Brian Ross said. And perhaps that's the problem -- even Toyota and NHTSA can't recreate these horror stories."

We all know that it may be impossible to recreate a computer glitch except by chance. Some computer programing bugs are easy to find and fix some are just impossible to find and that's why there is no computer program on the market which can guarantee to be 100% bug free. I don't see why Toyota and other brands could not have a computer glitch which pops-up under weird conditions which have not been duplicated yet. It's just a very possible situation and it has nothing to do with trying to hide any problem, it's just not found - yet.

This could happen to any car manufacturer and/or any computer program IMHO. Saying "we have not been able to duplicate the problem" is very different than saying "there is no other problem than floor mats" ...

Again, whether the problem is simply the floor mat or a more twisted computer glitch, it seems possible to stop the car using the procedure mentioned and that's the most important part until someone can prove one way or another.